Number Zero

[wsu789]

Ellis is probably the fourth option as a back to the basket post; but his mid-range jumper from the high post is pretty sweet and his defense and hustle is outstanding.

[Fredster]

Well, this turned out not to be such a bad thread, in spite of mooses protestations. Yesterdays game only reinforced my belief that Blair should stsrt and Ellis should sub. Anyone who thinks that any shot 0 takes right now is "sweet" isn't watching the same game I am. Ellis is out of sync offensively, and I believe Marshall will pull the trigger on this switch. Do I care who GM starts? No, that's his call and I trust him. Is my opinion valid ? You betcha!

And Kyle sucked yesterday and I would sure like to know what his mind set is. He has so much talent while his attitude and concentration is a yo-yo.

[forevershockerfan]

Actually, FSF would also start Blair. There are a few other times I have wondered if Kyles should start some games over Hatch, although Kyles sure struggled yesterday while Hatch was kicking butt and taking names. However, just know I have never made '1 thin dime' coaching in basketball.

Yesterday, Blair played 29 minutes versus 20 for Ellis. They both give us a spark and sometimes even are in the game together and hold the fort in solid fashion. It is pure speculation as to why Ellis is still starting. Maybe because "if it is broke, don't fix it?" Or maybe "it is not who starts, but who finishes the game?" Or maybe Coach Marshall prefers a 6th man who brings in a "high octane energy level." One thing about it, Coach Marshall is very defensive minded, and Ellis does that well in that realm and poses match-up advantages versus some teams.

Here's the deal. Coach Marshall plays to win and I like the way he distributes minutes better than any Shocker Coach clear back to Ralph Miller. Bobby Knight always felt like a sub that played a great 1st half would be rewarded with a 2nd half start. Other Coaches get a rythmn going and the starting lineup stays mostly the same in both halfs. What was the proof in the pudding yesterday to me was this regardless of my opinions of who should start, I enjoyed the way the minutes were distributed. Blair and Hatch were on and played 29 and 33 minutes. Ellis and Kyles did not click as much as they have in other games and played 20 and 17 minutes. That is what I appreciate about Coach Marshall. He has recruited quality depth and recognizes and utilizes our players to the max in various matchups that vary with each and every game to that which is best for the team to have the very best chance to win.

[im4wsu]

Well, this turned out not to be such a bad thread, in spite of mooses protestations. Yesterdays game only reinforced my belief that Blair should stsrt and Ellis should sub. Anyone who thinks that any shot 0 takes right now is "sweet" isn't watching the same game I am. Ellis is out of sync offensively, and I believe Marshall will pull the trigger on this switch. Do I care who GM starts? No, that's his call and I trust him. Is my opinion valid ? You betcha!

And Kyle sucked yesterday and I would sure like to know what his mind set is. He has so much talent while his attitude and concentration is a yo-yo.

In yesterday's game, Ellis was on the floor for 1,220 seconds (20 minutes) and the Shox outscored sCUm 39-26. Plus 13. Blair was on the floor 1,724 seconds (29 minutes) and the sCUm outscored WSU 47-46. Minus 1.

Blair played great and Ellis did not, but Marshall's job is not to get Ellis to play great, his job is to get WSU wins, and +13 is better than -1.

[wsu789]

I stand by my description of Ellis's mid-range game and I'll happily take Marshall's decisions on a starting five and playing time.

[Aargh]

Pairing Durley with Ellis and Stutz with Blair gives two combinations with balance between O and D.

The combination of Durley and Ellis at the beginning of the game is good at throwing an opponent off of their game and demoralizing them in the opening minutes. The Shox do a pretty good job at that.

Ellis' long arms and involvement in the press disrupts an opponent even getting the ball across half court. Ellis' D in the paint (and again those long arms) disrupts a lot of an opponent's ability to establish an inside game. All that's happening while Durley is scoring pretty much at will while an opponent tries to figure out how to slow him down.

Ellis' unique abilities to alter the flow of a game gets in the heads of the opposing players and coaches right from the start of a game. Show me one team in the Valley that can simulate what Ellis does with their scout team.

Ellis starting can take an opponent out of their game plan or make them question their game plan within the first couple of minutes of the game. Durley, Hannah, Murry, and Hatch are all capable of scoring all the points that are needed. Ellis' not scoring is not a problem. His disruption of the other team's plans from the opening tip off are valuable and most effective at the beginning of the game.

[SpanglerFan316]

Aargh:
:yes: :good: :thewave:

[1979Shocker]

And Kyle sucked yesterday and I would sure like to know what his mind set is. He has so much talent while his attitude and concentration is a yo-yo.

I think the problem with Kyles is that he is more of an uptempo player. Slow the game down and he starts making mistakes.

[1979Shocker]

I stand by my description of Ellis's mid-range game and I'll happily take Marshall's decisions on a starting five and playing time.

The announcers in yesterday's game didn't seem to know much about Ellis. When Ellis took a mid-range jumper and missed it, one of them said that's not his shot, he's a put back guy.

[SubGod22]

Ellis has a fine jump shot that just hasn't fallen the last two games. The three or so games before that I believe he was shooting around 80% with a lot of jumpers. It happens. He's not a big scorer but he is an effective jump shooter.

[ShockerWheelSU]

Yesterday on the post game call-in show this question was brought up and Coach Jans said that one the rotation is working just fine as it is and Coach Marshall likes it that way and two he said that it wouldn't make sense doing this. Starting Blair over Ellis would put two very similar players out there in Durley and Blair. Both want to do their work from the block and that is not how the offense works.

I totally agree with Coach Jans. It all makes sense. Plus Coach Marshall preaches defense 24-7, that is why he likes Ellis. Also bring Blair, Stutz, and Kyles off the bench gives us three scoring threats. Not many valley teams have three scoring threats coming off the bench.

I love our rotation the way it is. It is winning us games.


:goshocks: :goshocks:

[ShoxFan963]

Well, this turned out not to be such a bad thread, in spite of mooses protestations. Yesterdays game only reinforced my belief that Blair should stsrt and Ellis should sub. Anyone who thinks that any shot 0 takes right now is "sweet" isn't watching the same game I am. Ellis is out of sync offensively, and I believe Marshall will pull the trigger on this switch. Do I care who GM starts? No, that's his call and I trust him. Is my opinion valid ? You betcha!

Do you not respect his hustle and defense he brings to this team? He made Carter(he's listed at 6'4") a non-factor yesterday, he had several nice rebounds and hustle plays through a group of blue jays, and he knocked down both of his free throws, job well done.

Everyone is disappointed with his offensive output, it could be better, but it's tough when you play 20 minutes a game mostly with Durley who's going to get most of the post touches, not to mention Hatch, Murry, and Hannah. The long jump shot is about all of the offensive opportunities he is going to get, it just hasn't fallen the last few games.

[Capitol Shock]

When we are 2 and 15 question the rotation.....when we are 15-2 DO NOT QUESTION the rotation.

[Fredster]

This is a forum. It is exists to discuss, question, debate and examine. I'll question whatever I please.

The best argument for Ellis starting is that we are better pairing Blair with Stutz on the second five. Blair brings more leadership and offense to the second five.
I buy that.

[Aargh]

This is a forum. It is exists to discuss, question, debate and examine. I'll question whatever I please.

The best argument for Ellis starting is that we are better pairing Blair with Stutz on the second five. Blair brings more leadership and offense to the second five.
I buy that.

I don't take credit for the pairing concept, but I posted it, so I'd like to respond here.
The pairings work well and are certainly part of the big picture, but...

...Ellis has a huge impact on WSU opening stronger than the opponent. Ellis can cause opposing coaches to adjust, tweak, and possibly question their game plans. Marshall, perhaps, uses Ellis to play head games with opposing coaches.