Big Game Gregg

[WuDrWu]

Fact or Fiction?


I know results are about winning and losing, but I also contend it's about playing (or coaching) above your talent.


Here is a list of what I would consider the big games of Gregg's tenure at WSU:

Baylor 55-64 L
LSU 67-47 W
UAB 61-52 W
@CU 65-68 L
CU 63-65 L
@DU 63-73 L
ISU 67-71 L

GU 50-58 L
Sienna 72-70 W
MSU 65-57 L
TT 69-72 L
@CU 56-68 L
CU 71-54 W
UNI 69-61 W
CSU 70-59 W
MSU 59-46 W
CU 62-61 W
BU 84-73 W
SU 56-70 L

Pitt 55-68 L
Iowa 74-57 W


So he's 10-11...it's not really the record, which isn't all that bad considering these should be some of the toughest games you are playing, but how we are competing in these games which, for the most part, was pretty darned competitive.

My point being, mostly, that these are the type of games we SHOULD be playing more of......not only do I think our coach excels in these type of games, I think it pushes the kids as well.

And they're more fun.....and they tend to bring in more revenue......and they give us a better chance to be on tv.......which helps recruiting.........etc, etc.........



Schedule up, play up, expect up, go Shocks.
:wsu_posters: :posterwsu:

[T.VuOP]

Re: Big Game Gregg

Schedule up, ...

:yes:
How hard is it to do this?
I'm all for it, even if we have to be bought in (like the Syracuse)
:wsu_posters:

[Ricardo del Rio]

I love this post.

Facts and data.

I love the conclusions.

[shocker22]

I think now that Gregg ha shis guys in here we can start to gauge his big game success. First two years are tough to use as a barometer.

[newshock1234]

he would be 11-10 if a certain clock operator started the clock on time

[ShockerFever]

I completely agree with the scheduling up.. ESPECIALLY when we will be having at-large caliber teams in the coming years. It would be utterly foolish to not to play up. I don't care if it's a 1-game buy, a 2-for-1, whatever (assuming the competition is right, i.e. no 2-for-1's with KSU's or anything like that). It did nothing but help us the last time we did it, why not try it again?

We're 8-1 right now and I have little to no idea where we stand at the moment. And that's not a knock on us, but it's the fact that we really haven't played anybody.



To be fair Doc, how many "bad" losses does Marshall have? Just curious.

[WuDrWu]

Re: Big Game Gregg

Schedule up, ...

:yes:
How hard is it to do this?
I'm all for it, even if we have to be bought in (like the Syracuse)
:wsu_posters:

Honestly, it IS harder than I make it sound, but by the same token, it's not as hard as coaches lead us to believe.

We all KNOW Syracuse isn't going to come here, ever.

Every year we have 13 non con games.

For now that means:

1)tourney, usually good games.
1)BB - usually bad games, although pretty good for us, all things considered.
1)MWC challenge game - fair.

That leaves 8 games to play with:

I'd like to see 2 games where ever, whenever and the better the team, the more I like it. Kentucky at Rupp, fine.

1 solid game at IBA, next year it's Tulsa...not flashy but fine.

3 tuneups.....don't care too much but can we try for non 275+ teams? I mean if we can't beat crappy 200-250 teams, does it matter anyway?

That leaves 3 games that should be QUALITY games against QUALITY teams with a purpose. Gonzaga at the Key Center. KSU at Sprint. OU (or OSU) at the Ford Center. Mizzou at the Sprint Center. Mizzou in St Louis. UT in Dallas. All these could be part of some kind of "showcase" weekend.

Arkansas, UNM, Baylor, TT, OU, OSU, KSU, Arizona, ASU, Utah...etc all seem like viable options under the right circumstances.

[Steeleshocker]

It may be just me, but I think Gregg scheduled lighter this year on purpose. Our team, for the most part, is still young, and we're youngest at the point guard (minus Clevin).

I think this year is all about getting some confidence, believing that if we bring our toughness every night we can win.

Combine that confidence that we hopefully gain over the course of this year with Gregg having the types of players he wants in this system, and I think next year the schedule starts becoming tougher.

I think if you want to make waves you've got to take chances like Gonzaga before they were big. We may get beat down a few times, but you can't be the best until you see what it takes in person.

[MTXE]

Did someone mention facts?

Gregg is in his 3rd year and his overall record is under .500 even having just devoured the Sara Lee Invitational. The last two years have been troubling considering Gregg's "superstar" status coming in.

Everybody is penciling this team in as NCAA bound without ever yet being tested. What past events in the Marshall Era are we using to justify these expectations? Winthrop? This isn't the Big South...

A solid win over TCU will start a buzz. A win over Tech will cause people to start saying silly things. What this team and HCGM must prove to me is the ability to win and win big in the MVC. These coaches are going to know how Marshall's teams play now. They will be well prepared to play us and will know all our weaknesses.

Unless we run the table in St. Louis, we are going to have to win a large majority of our MVC games at home AND on the road to get to the NCAA Tourney. Talk to me in February about how we are looking.

Scheduling up is indeed necessary for a team coming from the MVC. But first things first -let's see how well we play on the road in the MVC before we start thinking about walking into North Carolina expecting a win. Turgeon's teams played pretty smart, Gregg's teams must also play smart to ever expect to beat a bag of Burger Boys in their kitchen.

We have a fine group of cooks on the floor. So far they have proven they can make a fine batch of Mac's N Cheese. Tomorrow we will see if they can cook something that requires a wee bit more than simply boiling water.

[Anthroshock]

Did someone mention facts?

Gregg is in his 3rd year and his overall record is under .500 even having just devoured the Sara Lee Invitational. The last two years have been troubling considering Gregg's "superstar" status coming in.

Everybody is penciling this team in as NCAA bound without ever yet being tested. What past events in the Marshall Era are we using to justify these expectations? Winthrop? This isn't the Big South...

A solid win over TCU will start a buzz. A win over Tech will cause people to start saying silly things. What this team and HCGM must prove to me is the ability to win and win big in the MVC. These coaches are going to know how Marshall's teams play now. They will be well prepared to play us and will know all our weaknesses.

Unless we run the table in St. Louis, we are going to have to win a large majority of our MVC games at home AND on the road to get to the NCAA Tourney. Talk to me in February about how we are looking.

Scheduling up is indeed necessary for a team coming from the MVC. But first things first -let's see how well we play on the road in the MVC before we start thinking about walking into North Carolina expecting a win. Turgeon's teams played pretty smart, Gregg's teams must also play smart to ever expect to beat a bag of Burger Boys in their kitchen.

We have a fine group of cooks on the floor. So far they have proven they can make a fine batch of Mac's N Cheese. Tomorrow we will see if they can cook something that requires a wee bit more than simply boiling water.

Holy Mixed Metaphors...!

Next year we get Maui, which will be huge as far as scheduling. That is a brutal early season road/neutral swing.

Steele is right in that HCGM is scheduling down a bit this year to build confidence. We play who we do. We aren't under control of how other teams complete their schedules, nothing that can be done about that.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the Shockers can go into Rupp or the DeanDome and take a game, they just want to see some balls when it comes to challenging the program.

[WuDrWu]

Did someone mention facts?

Gregg is in his 3rd year and his overall record is under .500 even having just devoured the Sara Lee Invitational. The last two years have been troubling considering Gregg's "superstar" status coming in.

Everybody is penciling this team in as NCAA bound without ever yet being tested. What past events in the Marshall Era are we using to justify these expectations? Winthrop? This isn't the Big South...

A solid win over TCU will start a buzz. A win over Tech will cause people to start saying silly things. What this team and HCGM must prove to me is the ability to win and win big in the MVC. These coaches are going to know how Marshall's teams play now. They will be well prepared to play us and will know all our weaknesses.

Unless we run the table in St. Louis, we are going to have to win a large majority of our MVC games at home AND on the road to get to the NCAA Tourney. Talk to me in February about how we are looking.

Scheduling up is indeed necessary for a team coming from the MVC. But first things first -let's see how well we play on the road in the MVC before we start thinking about walking into North Carolina expecting a win. Turgeon's teams played pretty smart, Gregg's teams must also play smart to ever expect to beat a bag of Burger Boys in their kitchen.

We have a fine group of cooks on the floor. So far they have proven they can make a fine batch of Mac's N Cheese. Tomorrow we will see if they can cook something that requires a wee bit more than simply boiling water.

Per usual, you missed my points, but since you seem hell bent on tearing down far more often than not, allow me to clarify and or refute your "facts".

Year one is not on Gregg, it's on Mark. End of discussion. His pace mirrors Mark's pace of .500 in year 2 and above .500 in year 3. It is only "troubling" to you and perhaps a few other wards of the state. Mark was 4 games under .500 after season 3. Let's see if Gregg can best that (wanna wager?).

"Everybody is penciling in"????? Laughable. I'd say less than 5% DIEHARD fans are thinking NCAA....real fans are excited about a CHANCE to compete in St. Louis.

We'll be as prepared as any team in the Valley, and I think Gregg has shown this quality already (and I believe I know a little something about preparation). I am not sure what Gregg HAS to prove to you, but I guess you need to define what win BIG is in the MVC.

No argument about St Louis or how many games we have to win. I'd guess somewhere around 27 (at least) for us to get an at large.....has ANYONE said anything to the contrary?

Why do we have to see how we do on the road in the MVC before we schedule up? And who said we were going to win at Chapel Hill? I didn't......did anyone else? I said we need to PLAY these type of games. I opened for discussion that Gregg can be strong in these type of games and that these games help overall development. I have yet to see Gregg's teams not play smart for any length of time....I have seen them lacking talent. I do not see that so much today. Facts.

[WuDrWu]

To be fair Doc, how many "bad" losses does Marshall have? Just curious.

Please don't confuse me 'Fever. :D I am NOT fair and balanced.




The answer, of course, is far too many, but I like the current trend.

[MTXE]

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the Shockers can go into Rupp or the DeanDome and take a game, they just want to see some balls when it comes to challenging the program.

We've had enough "challenge" just trying to win an MVC road game the last couple years. I'm all for having balls and challenging a program, but right now we need to prove competence at the lowest levels (our own conference).

Mark Turgeon took the big buy-out game with Syracuse only after we went to the Sweet Sixteen and it paid off in aces.. at least until a player decided to put his hand in another player's proverbial cookie jar.

I'm really concerned about our mental game and our offense against smarter, better teams. Last year we were absolutely tooled by a cellar-dwelling Stanford team that seemed to be light years in intelligence (bball IQ) beyond us.

[Shocker85]

Gregg is in his 3rd year and his overall record is under .500 even having just devoured the Sara Lee Invitational. The last two years have been troubling considering Gregg's "superstar" status coming in.

This is just a ridiculous statement.

Marshall's first season followed a pretty late hire after the coaching dominoes took Turgeon to aTm after Gillespie had left. Turgeon's last 2 or 3 recruiding classes were poor and the cupboard was pretty bare, save Cooz and Braeuer and the addition of Clemente to try to hold a team of marginal D1 returnees together. Record 11-20.

Last season's team added Frosh Murry, Stutz, Kyles, Chamberlain and JuCo Hannah to sophomores Hatch, Ellis, and Durley. That's a lot of underclassmen. Record 17-17.

So far, Marshall has started very similarly to Turgeon's tenure (9-19 and 15-15 his first two seasons). In no way was I troubled going to the NIT in Turgeon's 3rd and 4th season and the NCAA in his 5th. I take exception to using "troubling" to characterize Marshall's first two seasons. Nothing about Marshall has been troubling to me. Nor will I be "troubled" when he takes to the tournament in style, as Turgeon did.

Go be troubled somewhere else.

--'85.

[ShockerPrez]

Gregg is in his 3rd year and his overall record is under .500 even having just devoured the Sara Lee Invitational. The last two years have been troubling considering Gregg's "superstar" status coming in.

I am not troubled. As a Shocker fan for 35 years, I am used to very lean years, but have grown to know when we have the real deal as a head coach and when we don't. We have the real deal, and HCGM wasn't left with much, but I would challenge you to find a WSU team since the 1st Smithson era with more athleticism and talent than what we have on the roster now.

Everybody is penciling this team in as NCAA bound without ever yet being tested. What past events in the Marshall Era are we using to justify these expectations? Winthrop? This isn't the Big South...

Up until the UMKC game, no one had really said anything about the NCAA tournament for the most part, the NIT was the realistic expectation. But with winning comes higher expectations. But yeah, Pitt is the only game that was against a decent team and we failed miserably.

A solid win over TCU will start a buzz. A win over Tech will cause people to start saying silly things. What this team and HCGM must prove to me is the ability to win and win big in the MVC. These coaches are going to know how Marshall's teams play now. They will be well prepared to play us and will know all our weaknesses.

Wins over ranked teams does tend to make fans a little giddy. And yeah, the Valley teams will be prepared to play us, but HCGM is also going to prepare to play them. And he hasn't exactly hid the fact that he was pissed off a couple of years ago when WSU was beaten up by the other teams in the Valley. And lest we forget the screw in St Lou last year. I would say that he has declared war on the Valley and is expecting a pound of flesh for their transgressions in the past.

Unless we run the table in St. Louis, we are going to have to win a large majority of our MVC games at home AND on the road to get to the NCAA Tourney. Talk to me in February about how we are looking.

Really?

Scheduling up is indeed necessary for a team coming from the MVC. But first things first -let's see how well we play on the road in the MVC before we start thinking about walking into North Carolina expecting a win. Turgeon's teams played pretty smart, Gregg's teams must also play smart to ever expect to beat a bag of Burger Boys in their kitchen.

I don't think anyone is expecting to go win these types of games, but it is still good to go play them. If you were in a contest to see if you could hit a major league fastball for a million dollars, would you practice on a tee?

We have a fine group of cooks on the floor. So far they have proven they can make a fine batch of Mac's N Cheese. Tomorrow we will see if they can cook something that requires a wee bit more than simply boiling water.

Agreed. But I don't think that we need to start pissing in everyone's cheerios.