Crowd

[Shocker85]

Eddie later realized that you could be disciplined and have fun at the same time. Sadly, it was too late for us. His methodical way of breaking things down sometimes did not serve him as well as he thought.

Fogler used to love to bore the hell out of us with his technical discussions of possessions and other coach-speak minutia, didn't he?

Besides that, he never really tried very hard to fit-in as the hometown guy, in this, the biggest hometown in America. He was always very guarded, in public anyway.

Things I like about Gregg - he's not afraid to let his guard down at times and seems to represent Wichita well for himself, his family, and his players.

--'85.

[ShockTalk]

Sasha has always been one of my favorite players. In my opinion, Folger turned a kid with potenial NBA talent, a true love and passion for the game, into an average college player. For that, and leaving us in the abyss with his Cohen recommendation, I have never cared much for Folger.

To the Good Doctor: Did Folger do his great things for WSU with his recruits and did he leave us with our cupboard stocked or in a similar shape of another recent coach?

[Shocker85]

Sasha has always been one of my favorite players. In my opinion, Folger turned a kid with potenial NBA talent, a true love and passion for the game, into an average college player. For that, and leaving us in the abyss with his Cohen recommendation, I have never cared much for Folger.

To the Good Doctor: Did Folger do his great things for WSU with his recruits and did he leave us with our cupboard stocked or in a similar shape of another recent coach?

Not the Doc, don't play one on TV, and didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but ...

Fogler was a decent recruiter, my memory isn't great, but the Praylows and John Cooper were good players. Things got pretty rocky at the end of Smithson The Elder's tenure, and as I recall most of Fogler's players were his own recruits.

It didn't make any difference what kind of players were left in the program when Fogler left because Cohen WAS NOT D1 Head Coach material and killed the program for himself, Scott Thompson, and Randy Smithson (to an extent). You couldn't tell if the players were good or not, because the system was so bad. The worst thing Fogler did was convince the AD (was it Bredehoft?) to name his hand-picked successor Mike Cohen as head coach.

As far as hurting Sasha's NBA chances ... that was the Carolina way - ultimate team basketball. Michael Jordan only averaged about 18 PPG under Dean Smith at Carolina. You had to play "team ball" at the expense of stardom under their mentality.

--'85.

[ShockTalk]

I believe Sasha WAS a team player and a darn good one! I was at the game he pulled Sasha, didn't like it, but understood it. Whatever the reason, for the rest of Sasha's WSU career, he wasn't the same player as before.

[1979Shocker]

Not to mention the all time best (as in most entertaining) play in Shocker basketball history...you know the Sasha no-look, over the head, between the knees ball fake! :yahoo:

Someone wouldn't happen to have that taped somewhere, would they?

[WuDrWu]

Fogler used to love to bore the hell out of us with his technical discussions of possessions and other coach-speak minutia, didn't he?

Besides that, he never really tried very hard to fit-in as the hometown guy, in this, the biggest hometown in America. He was always very guarded, in public anyway.

Things I like about Gregg - he's not afraid to let his guard down at times and seems to represent Wichita well for himself, his family, and his players.

--'85.

1)Well, I can't say that he bored me. I am a fan of that "coach speak minutia" and I always enjoyed every minute I spent with Eddie. I'm certain that being a coach at the time had a lot to do with it. I would have killed or died to be a grad assistant under Eddie.

2)No doubt Eddie was too guarded in public and it was a SHAME because if you got to know him, he had a great dry wit and was fun to be around. Again, sadly most of the public never saw that side of him.

Also, like most really good coaches, he was supremely confident (some would call arrogant) and that was tough for many to deal with.

Lastly, Eddie had NO long term plans to stay in Wichita. Although he enjoyed his time, this was always considered a stepping stone to the next job and he never doubted he would be stepping up soon.


Your last comment is why Gregg was popular from day 1 and why he will obtain rock star status when the program reaches the heights we all expect.

He likes to be around other people, he has a GREAT personality, he isn't afraid to speak his mind and he backs down from NO ONE.

He belongs here, he is planning for the long term and he 100% believes he can achieve the loftiest goals right here at WSU.

There will be no "that's as good as we can do here" comments from Gregg.

[Shox21]

There will be no "that's as good as we can do here" comments from Gregg.

He has already proven that. This man CAN recruit, and once the kids "get it" (his system), they take off. I think most of the young men on our team now are in the column of "getting it", but there are a few that still need more work on the system. At least I haven't seen anyone out there the last two games that looked lost. Can't say that for a few games before that. They all need work on one or more facets of their game, but for the most part I am so very relieved and feel a bit more optimistic and am so looking forward to the future. For a while there -----

[WuDrWu]

To the Good Doctor: Did Folger do his great things for WSU with his recruits and did he leave us with our cupboard stocked or in a similar shape of another recent coach?

I believe it was Eddie's arrogance that caused the Cohen debacle. Mike was a good assistant and THAT WAS ALL HE EVER WAS GOING TO BE. However, Eddie believed good coaches had assistants that should become head coaches, it was a head coaches responsibility to get their assistants promoted, then by definition he needed to get Mike promoted. Obviously that was a monumental mistake.

Eddie was a solid recruiter, not a great one. He did not accomplish, revenue-wise, what Mark did. He did, imho, leave the player pool in much better shape.

[ShockTalk]

I can't disagree with that statement, Doc.

[WuDrWu]

It is difficult to imagine the variety of levels on which Coach Cohen failed, and failed miserably.

He not only couldn't coach, manage, plan, prepare or motivate, he allowed the prisoners to run the asylum and then tried to blame others. Scott Thompson might have been successful here, but not with things in shambles as they were.

[vbird53]

It is difficult to imagine the variety of levels on which Coach Cohen failed, and failed miserably.

He not only couldn't coach, manage, plan, prepare or motivate, he allowed the prisoners to run the asylum and then tried to blame others. Scott Thompson might have been successful here, but not with things in shambles as they were.

Anybody that cries at the press conference in which they are hired, might just be doomed to fail.

[ShockerFever]

It is difficult to imagine the variety of levels on which Coach Cohen failed, and failed miserably.

He not only couldn't coach, manage, plan, prepare or motivate, he allowed the prisoners to run the asylum and then tried to blame others. Scott Thompson might have been successful here, but not with things in shambles as they were.

Anybody that cries at the press conference in which they are hired, might just be doomed to fail.

[xazshox]

Fogler

It's been a long time ago, but if memory serves me correctly, most of what Fogler did here was with talent that Smithson recruited before him. I remember thinking that was the case for years after that! Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I've had a strong feeling about him in that regard for years.

[ShockTalk]

That's what I thought too. And Folger did the same thing at Vanderbilt, took a fairly ready made team, had success, left them high and dry. Went to South Caroline (I believe) which had little talent at the time and had a tough time building the program. So he retired to a different career.

[Shox21]

Eddie was a solid recruiter, not a great one. He did not accomplish, revenue-wise, what Mark did. He did, imho, leave the player pool in much better shape.

Doc, not to ding the guys that were left, but that's not saying a lot.