WSU ranked #64

[SubGod22]

That's pretty much how I see the starting lineup. I'm going with Matt over Gal. If Ehimen gets here in time it will be interesting to see if he'd start right away of wait until sometime after X-Mas.

[SpanglerFan316]

That's pretty much how I see the starting lineup. I'm going with Matt over Gal. If Ehimen gets here in time it will be interesting to see if he'd start right away of wait until sometime after X-Mas.

I'd like to see a practice game with 6'7" Aaron Ellis and Matt Braeuer guarding one another; I'm fairly sure Matt's great three point shooting would not show up in that game and Matt's defense would not be adequate. I would even love to see Gal and Matt guard one another in a game; I think Gal takes Matt to the hole over and over again. If Matt gets hot in a game, I think putting a quick, tall guard on him eliminates that threat. Just my thoughts.

[SubGod22]

That's pretty much how I see the starting lineup. I'm going with Matt over Gal. If Ehimen gets here in time it will be interesting to see if he'd start right away of wait until sometime after X-Mas.

I'd like to see a practice game with 6'7" Aaron Ellis and Matt Braeuer guarding one another; I'm fairly sure Matt's great three point shooting would not show up in that game and Matt's defense would not be adequate. I would even love to see Gal and Matt guard one another in a game; I think Gal takes Matt to the hole over and over again. If Matt gets hot in a game, I think putting a quick, tall guard on him eliminates that threat. Just my thoughts.

And then Matt can get others involved and it opens up more space for Cooz and Griz.

[SpanglerFan316]

That's pretty much how I see the starting lineup. I'm going with Matt over Gal. If Ehimen gets here in time it will be interesting to see if he'd start right away of wait until sometime after X-Mas.

I'd like to see a practice game with 6'7" Aaron Ellis and Matt Braeuer guarding one another; I'm fairly sure Matt's great three point shooting would not show up in that game and Matt's defense would not be adequate. I would even love to see Gal and Matt guard one another in a game; I think Gal takes Matt to the hole over and over again. If Matt gets hot in a game, I think putting a quick, tall guard on him eliminates that threat. Just my thoughts.

And then Matt can get others involved and it opens up more space for Cooz and Griz.

OK?? Matt may be the starter all year long but he has some liabilities. If Matt is guarded one-on-one and is shut down, how does this open "up more space for Cooz and Griz"? Matt's supporters always have scenarios in which he does well. Sometimes I expect to see someone write "so Matt puts on a cape, flies over the basket and dunks."

I hope Matt has a great season. I just think Matt supporters fail to see his weaknesses and fail to appreciate Gal's strengths. I think people like Matt as a person so much that they fail to be objective about basketball. I want the best player, Matt or Gal, on the court, not the nicest guy on the court. I think they are both good and hope they have great seasons.

[vbird53]

That's pretty much how I see the starting lineup. I'm going with Matt over Gal. If Ehimen gets here in time it will be interesting to see if he'd start right away of wait until sometime after X-Mas.

I'd like to see a practice game with 6'7" Aaron Ellis and Matt Braeuer guarding one another; I'm fairly sure Matt's great three point shooting would not show up in that game and Matt's defense would not be adequate. I would even love to see Gal and Matt guard one another in a game; I think Gal takes Matt to the hole over and over again. If Matt gets hot in a game, I think putting a quick, tall guard on him eliminates that threat. Just my thoughts.

And then Matt can get others involved and it opens up more space for Cooz and Griz.

OK?? Matt may be the starter all year long but he has some liabilities. If Matt is guarded one-on-one and is shut down, how does this open "up more space for Cooz and Griz"? Matt's supporters always have scenarios in which he does well. Sometimes I expect to see someone write "so Matt puts on a cape, flies over the basket and dunks."

I hope Matt has a great season. I just think Matt supporters fail to see his weaknesses and fail to appreciate Gal's strengths. I think people like Matt as a person so much that they fail to be objective about basketball. I want the best player, Matt or Gal, on the court, not the nicest guy on the court. I think they are both good and hope they have great seasons.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Gal doesn't have any liabilities? It's a two way street.

Matt has earned his stripes as starting point guard, and Gal has yet to take it away from him. We are very fortunate to have great guard play. Each of them has some great attributes.

[wushock]

I am looking for J. T. Durley to be starting No. 5

[SpanglerFan316]

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Gal doesn't have any liabilities? It's a two way street.

Matt has earned his stripes as starting point guard, and Gal has yet to take it away from him. We are very fortunate to have great guard play. Each of them has some great attributes.

Of course it is a two way street and the player that starts has to earn it. We don't know if Matt will start or Gal will start; there is a new coach now. If Matt earns the starting position, he deserves to start. If Gal earns it, he deserves to start. What frustrated me last year was that Turgeon didn't cut Gal any slack. Look at the first SIU game. Matt played 22 minutes and didn't do much with that playing time. Gal played two minutes. How can a player prove himself in two minutes with a coach looking for a reason to pull him out of the game? If Turgeon was going to recruit a player who seemed to have a lot of potential and some national attention, why not give him a chance to play? (Did Jamar Howard ever make a mistake as a freshman? Was he yanked out of the game? Did he play only two minutes in a game?) I know the standard answer; playing time is earned in practice. Did anyone here attend all of the practices? Does anyone know if this is a honest answer?

I agree that both players have great attributes. My objection is not to Matt starting. My objection last year was that Turgeon didn't really give Gal a chance and my objection now is that people here have already decided that Marshall will have Matt start at point guard before regular practice has even begun. I trust Marshall to pick the PG he thinks is best for the team. I'll wait until the season starts and see what happens.

Every player has liabilities. Kobe has liabilities. Gal has liabilities. Matt has liabilities. Tyrone Shoelace has liabilities. Did I ever say Gal didn't have liabilities? No, I did not. So why are you implying that I did? This is the problem; Matt's fans support him so much that they take any suggestion that he isn't automatically the starter defensively.

[SubGod22]

I love Gal as much as the next guy, but Matt has shown he can lead this team. He's a very smart player. I think that will help guarantee that he starts.

Gal has much more potential then Matt. I've said that all along. He can do things Matt can't, but I suspect he's not ready to take the reigns from Matt. I'm not sure if he quite has the leadership ability of Matt right now. Hey, if he does and can take it from Matt all the better as that means we'll be that much better than I expect.

I agree that Turgeon held Mekel back by having a short leash. But at the same time, he held Matt back by not giving him the freedom to play the game like he knows how. Both Matt and Gal will be more successful with Marshall. But I just don't see how Gal takes the job based on what I've seen/read/heard.

[SpanglerFan316]

I love Gal as much as the next guy, but Matt has shown he can lead this team. He's a very smart player. I think that will help guarantee that he starts.

Gal has much more potential then Matt. I've said that all along. He can do things Matt can't, but I suspect he's not ready to take the reigns from Matt. I'm not sure if he quite has the leadership ability of Matt right now. Hey, if he does and can take it from Matt all the better as that means we'll be that much better than I expect.

I agree that Turgeon held Mekel back by having a short leash. But at the same time, he held Matt back by not giving him the freedom to play the game like he knows how. Both Matt and Gal will be more successful with Marshall. But I just don't see how Gal takes the job based on what I've seen/read/heard.

I think you would admit that you already know who Marshall will start before he has even coached one full practice; at least, that's how I read your post. In this case, I think you should give up any claims of objectivity when Matt is involved. Will you ask that Marshall be fired if he makes the huge mistake of starting Gal?

[wu_shizzle]

I think you would admit that you already know who Marshall will start before he has even coached one full practice; at least, that's how I read your post. In this case, I think you should give up any claims of objectivity when Gal is involved. Will you ask that Marshall be fired if he makes the huge mistake of starting Matt?

Kinda goes both ways, don't ya think?

[SpanglerFan316]

I think you would admit that you already know who Marshall will start before he has even coached one full practice; at least, that's how I read your post. In this case, I think you should give up any claims of objectivity when Gal is involved. Will you ask that Marshall be fired if he makes the huge mistake of starting Matt?

Kinda goes both ways, don't ya think?

I wrote a reply and then ShockNet seems to go offline. Anyway, my answer is NO. I don't know who will start. I'm not advocating for or against any particular player. I am advocating that we wait for Marshall to decide. SubGod22 has already made up his mind.

I cited stats from the last two MSU-WSU games. Turgeon was giving Gal more minutes (14 in the 02-20-07 game and 20 in the MVC tourney game; Matt got 33 minutes and 31 minutes respectively in these games) and Gal was doing as well or better than Matt on a per minute played basis.

http://www.goshockers.com/downloads1/16955.htm?ATCLID=801606&SPSID=61181&SPID=2851&DB_OEM_ID=7500#GAME.BOX

http://www.mvc.org/mbb/2007mbb/mvc06.htm?SPSID=61181&SPID=2851&DB_OEM_ID=7600

ADDED: Maybe I should explain. First, read my posts and tell me where I say Gal should start ahead of Matt. Second, the fact that Turgeon was giving Gal more minutes at the end of the season might indicate that Matt's superiority over Gal in Turgeon's mind was decreasing (or that Sean was getting less time). This argument might be a bit weak because Ryan Bradley played 6 minutes in the MVC tourney game. :lol: However, it is not automatic that Turgeon would have made Matt the starter; highly highly likely but not completely automatic.

[AndShock]

"Running a team" doesn't show up in the stats.

[SpanglerFan316]

"Running a team" doesn't show up in the stats.

Actually, it does. It's in the wins and losses statistic.

[rayc]

SpanglerFan316:

… I'm not advocating for or against any particular player. …

You are joking of course.

[The Mad Hatter]

That's pretty much how I see the starting lineup. I'm going with Matt over Gal. If Ehimen gets here in time it will be interesting to see if he'd start right away of wait until sometime after X-Mas.

I'd like to see a practice game with 6'7" Aaron Ellis and Matt Braeuer guarding one another; I'm fairly sure Matt's great three point shooting would not show up in that game and Matt's defense would not be adequate. I would even love to see Gal and Matt guard one another in a game; I think Gal takes Matt to the hole over and over again. If Matt gets hot in a game, I think putting a quick, tall guard on him eliminates that threat. Just my thoughts.

Spangler, exactly how is this not an argument in favor of Gal over Matt?

No one is claiming to be the coach, just giving their opinion on who they think will be the starter, in their own estimation, which is the same thing you are doing.

If you want to make an argument for starting Gal, feel free to do so, but don't criticize someone who argues for Matt as preempting the coach, and don't pretend like you aren't making the exact same kind of argument.