WSU ranked #64

[AndShock]

"Running a team" doesn't show up in the stats.

Actually, it does. It's in the wins and losses statistic.

I think there are other attributing factors than just who got more playing time at PG in a certain game.

[JVShocker_old]

I don't care who starts, as long as everyone plays well.

Matt seems better suited to the quick tempo of the game, and I think he'll get the nod over Gal.

PJ at the 2. (duuuuuuhhhhhhhhh)

I think Ellis, Griskenas, and Clemente have the potential to be impact players (and starters.)

I'm glad to go, sit and watch and not have to make the tough decisions. 8)

[SpanglerFan316]

SpanglerFan316:

… I'm not advocating for or against any particular player. …

You are joking of course.

I am completely serious. I think it is important for Shocker players to appear to be treated fairly (and to actually be treated fairly). I think the opinions of Shocker fans is not entirely lost on players being recruited by WSU. I'm not a basketball coach and I don't know who is a better point guard for the Shocks under Marshall's system. I want the best point guard under Marshall's system to start.

In my opinion, there is a good reason not to speculate on ShockerNet about starters and just wait for Gregg Marshall to decide. Lots of people interested in WSU sports read ShockerNet. Players, parents, highly rated recruits & recruits in general, the media, etc.

Let's say you are a 4-star player (scout or rivals - I don't care) who WSU coaches actually want (i.e. we trust the coach, not the ranking). Let's say there is a player two years older than you in the program who, everyone agrees, has less potential than do you. Suppose you get the impression from reading ShockerNet that the fan favorite older player will get the playing time while you sit. Would you come to WSU? Suppose the fans are ready to pick the starter before the new coach actually gets to run a full practice. Are you interested in WSU?

Some will say that fan opinions are not important to recruits or players. That Gal won't feel slighted and decide to stay in Europe after his second year at WSU. That recruits and players don't read ShockerNet. That parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, etc. don't read ShockerNet.

I thought I might quote from an article about Mantas Griskenas http://semoball.com/story/1202605.html:

Next year, Griskenas will turn in the 2,200 maximum fans he played in front of at the Bess Activity Center for sellout crowds at the 10,500-seat Charles Koch Arena.

"The gym is beautiful and I am looking forward to playing in front of sell-out crowds," Griskenas said. "They told me they even have a waiting lists for tickets."

Griskenas liked the facilities at both Wichita State and Nevada but playing time and having a former coach around with him were the biggest factors in his decision. Former Raider coach Dominic Okon, although it is not official yet, looks to be heading to Wichita State to take a job in basketball operations.

[SpanglerFan316]

Mad: Why don't you reread my posts?

[SpanglerFan316]

I don't care who starts, as long as everyone plays well.

Matt seems better suited to the quick tempo of the game, and I think he'll get the nod over Gal.

PJ at the 2. (duuuuuuhhhhhhhhh)

I think Ellis, Griskenas, and Clemente have the potential to be impact players (and starters.)

I'm glad to go, sit and watch and not have to make the tough decisions. 8)

Matt seems better suited to the quick tempo of the game, and I think he'll get the nod over Gal.
This is one reason why Matt might be a better choice at point guard. In addition, Matt is older, might have the confidence of PJ, is a good outside shooter when left alone and is a coach's son. All good reasons why he might start.

On the other hand, Matt is not 5'11". One person I know well is under 5'11" and he was in a class with Matt for an entire semester; this person said Matt is noticably shorter than he is. Matt sometimes drives into the "trees" and loses the ball or makes a poor or unhelpful pass. Matt's height might reduce his value as a defender.

What about Gal? He can pass well; sometimes he sent "too good" of a pass to a butterfingers player (who could I mean?) who lost it. He can drive to the basket and finish. He has more height and this might help his defense and vision. He apparently is the hardest worker on the team (if I recall Marshall's comment correctly).

What are Gal's weaknesses. He could improve his outside shot. He could be more selective in his passing and not send hard passes to Phillip Thomasson. I don't know how other players view him; maybe his people skills need work??? I don't think he is the son of a coach.

It seems that raising a question about Matt's status as a starter automatically means that I am an advocate for Gal. Why don't the rest of you think about this issue for a moment or two.

[rayc]

SpanglerFan316:

… I'm not advocating for or against any particular player. …

rayc:
You are joking of course.


SpanglerFan316:

I am completely serious. …

Then you are delusional, in my humble opinion, of course.

[Tasmanian Devil]

Matt seems better suited to the quick tempo of the game, and I think he'll get the nod over Gal.

It seems like I've seen this general sentiment several times on this board. From what I've seen, I would say the exact opposite. Matt is very fast up the court but that really doesn't translate if he doesn't finish which I think he sometimes lacks. Gal has that ability to not only get to the hole but finish when he gets there. I think we would've seen it more last season had Turg not had such a tight leash on him. I think Matt has a very valuable role but I see him better in the structured offense where the point guard's job is to run the show rather than create individually.

[SpanglerFan316]

That's pretty much how I see the starting lineup. I'm going with Matt over Gal. If Ehimen gets here in time it will be interesting to see if he'd start right away of wait until sometime after X-Mas.

I'd like to see a practice game with 6'7" Aaron Ellis and Matt Braeuer guarding one another; I'm fairly sure Matt's great three point shooting would not show up in that game and Matt's defense would not be adequate. I would even love to see Gal and Matt guard one another in a game; I think Gal takes Matt to the hole over and over again. If Matt gets hot in a game, I think putting a quick, tall guard on him eliminates that threat. Just my thoughts.

Spangler, exactly how is this not an argument in favor of Gal over Matt?

This is a very fair question if taken in isolation. The discussion here on who should start as point guard has been more like a coronation (of Matt) than a discussion. There are many reasons why Matt might be a better choice; I didn't see the need to point these out since everyone seems to be a "Matt fan." I thought I should balance out one minor item, raised in the CHN article which notes Matt "is also the best returning long range shooter on the team", by pointing out that we should not rely on Matt's outside shooting to provide a major part of our offense since a good defensive team could shut him down. In addition, he sometimes makes poor decisions when he drives to the basket.

A point guard's job is usually to run the offense rather than score; Magic Johnson was an exception. This issue of scoring is a minor part of the discussion because we are in big trouble if Matt or Gal is expected to carry the offensive load.

[SpanglerFan316]

SpanglerFan316:

… I'm not advocating for or against any particular player. …

rayc:
You are joking of course.


SpanglerFan316:

I am completely serious. …

Then you are delusional, in my humble opinion, of course.

WordNet - Cite This Source
delusional

adjective
suffering from or characterized by delusions

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

I guess I would select a different word to describe you.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
ir·ra·tion·al [i-rash-uh-nl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. without the faculty of reason; deprived of reason.
2. without or deprived of normal mental clarity or sound judgment.
3. not in accordance with reason; utterly illogical: irrational arguments.
4. not endowed with the faculty of reason: irrational animals.
5. Mathematics.
a. (of a number) not capable of being expressed exactly as a ratio of two integers.
b. (of a function) not capable of being expressed exactly as a ratio of two polynomials.
6. Algebra. (of an equation) having an unknown under a radical sign or, alternately, with a fractional exponent.
7. Greek and Latin Prosody.
a. of or pertaining to a substitution in the normal metrical pattern, esp. a long syllable for a short one.
b. noting a foot or meter containing such a substitution.

:D

[BostonWu]

This whole Matt vs Gal debate is utterly stupid. Who cares who starts? I just want both individuals to play to their utmost potential because in order for this team to thrive they'll need good production from both players - possibly at the very same time on the court together.

Spangler - Time to drop the conspiracy theories. If you actually believe these stupid internet "who's starting" debates are going to sway potential D1 star recruits then I've got some swamp land for ya.

[SpanglerFan316]

This whole Matt vs Gal debate is utterly stupid. Who cares who starts? I just want both individuals to play to their utmost potential because in order for this team to thrive they'll need good production from both players - possibly at the very same time on the court together.

Spangler - Time to drop the conspiracy theories. If you actually believe these stupid internet "who's starting" debates are going to sway potential D1 star recruits then I've got some swamp land for ya.

Boston: I will admit that I left the volleyball game in an "unhappy" mood and this might have influenced one or two of my posts. ;-) I don't have any "conspiracy theories" but I do know that this issue of the influence of sports message boards on recruiting has come up on many such boards (e.g. Illinois). I would hate for anything on ShockerNet or ValleyTalk to adversely affect WSU's recruiting. Do I think this is likely? Not really but who knows? Matt and Gal have contributed to WSU basketball. I am happier saying that we have two good players who seem to be good people and let Gregg worry about who starts. I'll get off my soapbox now and see if the result of the UNI-WSU VB match magically changed. :cry:

[SpanglerFan316]

"Running a team" doesn't show up in the stats.

Actually, it does. It's in the wins and losses statistic.

I think there are other attributing factors than just who got more playing time at PG in a certain game.

:good: :lol:

[rrshock]

Getting into the PG discussion again only leads to my answer for everyone. No one on this team (except PJ) has a garaunteed spot in the starting lineup. New coaches tend to shake things up. I'd be willing to guess that HCGM doesn't even know right now who will start until he gets going with full team stuff. So for everyone that thinks MB will start over GM and vice versa, you can give all the reasons in the world for who should be over the other, but since not one of us knows how this system is gonna work, we really don't know.

Who knows, GM might excel in this system and MB might not be suited well for it at all. We don't know, so there's really no point in arguing over who the starting PG is going to be.

[ShockRef]

The really stupid comment in this whole debate is that Spangler thinks Tyrone Shoelace has limitations. He is unstoppable and it's said that even Kobe calls him for advice (especially on ways to improve his cross-over dribble). 8)

[forevershockerfan]

The silver lining to these issues is that at least now we have quality depth at several positions. Competiton within is a very good thing as players vie for playing time which will only make our players improve. Practices should be a war. Years ago, our depth was so slim that it may have allowed players becoming to content with few real challenges going on to keep our players on the cutting edge. Against certain teams, circumstances could change from game to game as to who our Coach deems as the strengths needed that our various players offer that could help us win the most games possible.