Wichita State - Kansas Past Series

[n8]

I'm let it on elsewhere on this board, but I'll state it here for clarity. I'm a current student at Wichita State. My interest in out basketball program was whetted when we made out tourney run a couple of years ago (I was a high school senior).

However, I was in the unfortunate position of having the lion's share of my classmates becoming Jayhawks. And in order to talk basketball with them, a couple of friends of mine and I followed both teams since getting to college (admittedly, the Shox lower media exposure makes this a little harder for my KU cohorts).

We've long joked about a possible series between the teams as an opportunity to hang out and antagonize one another, but have known it's only slightly more possible than the discovery of the Higg's Boson to occur.

Reading comments on the board, I've heard some elliptical references to past events and would like to know what sores lead to the unraveling of my friends' and my designs on a friendly rivalry game between our alma maters.

If any of you wouldn't mind shedding some light on this, it would be much appreciated.

Thank you

:wsu_posters:

[ShockerFever]

http://www.shockernet.net/sn/viewtopic.php?t=12658&start=0

Disclaimer: Not everything contained in the before mentioned thread is all fact.

[Aargh]

the discovery of the Higg's Boson

That might be a bit academic for this board, but I'll give the KU stuff a shot.

KU has no trouble scheduling games and no problems selling out Allen against St. Mary's College of the Poor Blind Children. KU is not looking for games.

There is an argument that WSU will only accept a home-and-home and that WSU cannot possibly match what KU makes from a home game. That's been shaken a bit by the fact that KU refused a one-and-done in Lawrence on national TV.

If you want to give KU the benefit of the doubt, that game was refused because KU didn't want to embarrass WSU on national TV. If you want to take the opposite point of view, KU didn't want even a close game against WSU on national TV.

If KU would play WSU and KU won by 20, that's expected. If KU won by less than 20, then it would not be well-received by the KU money supporters who pay the bills. If KU won by 30+ it would be embarrassing to WSU and I don't think KU wants that.

There is no outcome from a KU/WSU game that's a good outcome for KU. A loss to WSU would cause a KU fan meltdown and give a KU coach the same job security that Ron Prince is enjoying. KU gets no more from a W over WSU than they get from a W over North-South-East North Dakota State Institutional School of Technology.

[n8]

If KU would play WSU and KU won by 20, that's expected. If KU won by less than 20, then it would not be well-received by the KU money supporters who pay the bills. If KU won by 30+ it would be embarrassing to WSU and I don't think KU wants that.

Yeah, like the alumni matter. :roll:

Given proper advertising, you could get just about everyone in the state ('cept for them Wildcats) to watch the game on TV. And the general feeling of the fan base seems to support the match up.

Hey! There's a novel idea... listen to the fans/butts-in-seats instead of the fat cat administrators. But what do I know?

the discovery of the Higgs Boson

That might be a bit academic for this board, but I'll give the KU stuff a shot.

Academic? This is college basketball we're talking about.

[owenc]

As a total FYI, I did go back and look at the record to get the full history of the meetings of the two teams. I believe this to be accurate but I certainly wouldn't swear by it. I did miss the 1955 game earlier because it didn't have WSU listed as "Wichita State" but only "Wichita".

Basically they had only played 4 times in history before meeting in the Sweet 16. Then they played 9 times in 10 years between 1984 and 1993.

Year | Result
--------------
1908 L 15-65 (when WSU was called Fairmont)
1941 L 39-54
1942 L 37-56
1955 L 55-56 (opening of the roundhouse someone said?)
1981 W 66-65 (Sweet 16)
1984 L 69-79
1985 L 83-90
1986 L 56-81
1987 W 54-49
1989 L 66-86
1990 L 66-93
1991 L 50-84
1992 L 51-81
1993 L 54-103

Not sure why they didn't play in 1988 but that would have been a good year for WSU to have played KU because they struggled most of the year. Until the end obviously ;-]

WSU is 2-12 in the series but without a doubt won the most important of the 14 games (and probably the only one that really mattered for much).

Interestingly the 1955 game was your standard beginning of the season non-conference type game but all the games in the 80s and 90s had them meeting in January as either the last non-conference game or even during the conference schedule. Not sure of the reasons for that but it was probably a little unusual.

Chris

[owenc]

Given proper advertising, you could get just about everyone in the state ('cept for them Wildcats) to watch the game on TV. And the general feeling of the fan base seems to support the match up.

Well part of the problem is that most of the KU games this year for instance are already televised nationally and the handful that aren't are televised statewide. Playing WSU probably doesn't really change that any and might even hurt depending on which game it replaces. I'm not saying this is a reason not to do it but just that the $$$ might not make sense.

I agree that the fan base is generally supportive of a game but probably more so for WSU fans than KU ones. My experience on kusports.com message boards is that KU fans generally have pretty good feelings about WSU (more so when Turg was around but still) but they are fairly indifferent to a game. Most of them are too young of course to really remember the two teams playing though so its kind of hypothetical.

They'd probably much rather see a WSU-KSU matchup 8) Then both fan bases could agree on something.

Chris

[DUShock]

Alumni & boosters matter because that's the money source.

[rrshock]

I hope that maybe something can be worked out on a "neutral court" between the two. By that I mean one at Intrust Bank Arena and one at either KU or The Sprint Center.

[RoyalShock]

Yeah, like the alumni matter. :roll:

This is not a path you want to pursue. It's been tried and the result wasn't pretty.

[SHOCKvalue]

Yeah, like the alumni matter. :roll:

Is this a dry joke of some sort I'm missing?

EDIT: Sorry RS, didn't see your post until after I added mine. SN and this thread sat minimized and idle for a few minutes.

[n8]

Royal, I have no intention of picking a fight with the people that actually pay for their tickets to the games. The financial contribution to the teams and athletic program are paramount and I understand that very well. My case is that I think it is unfair to penalize the fanbase and taxpayers(who fund the teams as well) because certain affluent individuals, be them on WSU's side or KU's, to block the making of a match up.

My quip was made with sarcasm in mind, I apologize if that wasn't clear. We wouldn't have a program without those fellas.

[RoyalShock]

Fair enough, n8.

I will say I don't think it is a fairness issue. I think it is a cause-and-effect issue, as Aargh correctly explained. And that means there is a reality to the situation that those who feel they are being penalized need to understand.

As such, the argument for playing needs to be made to fit the cause-and-effect application. That is, here is why playing is good for both programs. You could start with the positives for fans, but it ultimately must end with why those positives are also positives for the program.

I hope that made sense. Sometimes going from thought to the written word doesn't always result in an accurate translation.

[McShocker]

Man I wish this topic would die. Why would we want a series against a school where we would lose 75% (at least) of the games we play against them? Sorry, I don't want to see us play KU unless it is in the NCAA tournament.

[rrshock]

Man I wish this topic would die. Why would we want a series against a school where we would lose 75% (at least) of the games we play against them? Sorry, I don't want to see us play KU unless it is in the NCAA tournament.

Because in the day and age of national exposure, you want to play teams that give you that. Plus it is a game that wouldn't cost much money at all for WSU or KU to travel to. Saving a little bit of money couldn't be a bad thing, now could it?

[Veritas]

Let's first take care of beating the UMKCs of the world. As an alumn of both schools, I get nothing much from KU and WSU playing each other except in the NCAA tournament.
If WSU builds the program we all want, then you will see the two schools eventually play each other --in the NCAA tournament. Other than that, what's the point? WSU does not need KU to validate the Shocker program.