did anyone see ryan martin at the baseball game?

[Ricky Del Rio]

OK, why do you think it was inappropriate?

I don't see the problem.

Are you questioning political correctness? You are a trouble maker.

[Flanders]

Ok, I tried to find the thread about wearing the flag (someone yelled at me yesterday for not doing my due dilligence in a search so I did it this time) and couldn't find it. Anyone know where it is? I don't want to rehash anything that sounds as if it was thoroughly discussed, but now I'm really interested in knowing why people oppose it. I can't think of a reason off the top of my head.

[SubGod22]

Ok, I tried to find the thread about wearing the flag (someone yelled at me yesterday for not doing my due dilligence in a search so I did it this time) and couldn't find it. Anyone know where it is? I don't want to rehash anything that sounds as if it was thoroughly discussed, but now I'm really interested in knowing why people oppose it. I can't think of a reason off the top of my head.

The thread may have been purged. I can't seem to find it either. But I do remember it being thoroughly discussed.

[Shox21]

Ok, I tried to find the thread about wearing the flag (someone yelled at me yesterday for not doing my due dilligence in a search so I did it this time) and couldn't find it. Anyone know where it is? I don't want to rehash anything that sounds as if it was thoroughly discussed, but now I'm really interested in knowing why people oppose it. I can't think of a reason off the top of my head.

The thread may have been purged. I can't seem to find it either. But I do remember it being thoroughly discussed.

Flanders - I think the thread is gone. I looked up one of my PM's to Rip on "THE SUBJECT" and it was in December 2006. I don't want to rehash old news -- maybe Rip would agree to talk with you about it. He definitely has an opinion on it.

[Flanders]

Well if the horse is dead, I see no reason to beat it.

[newshock1234]

I can see why people have problem with it, and also i can see why he wore it.

[Shox21]

Well if the horse is dead, I see no reason to beat it.

---

Thank you.

[t7017s]

OK, why do you think it was inappropriate?

I don't see the problem.

I think the problem was that it wasn't a USA flag and that was all. Israel is an ally (a very very close one) so I am with you on this one, and don't understand the sentiment many have of it being disrespectful. I'm not exactly sure who its disrespectful to or why anyone would consider it disrespectful in any regards unless they have a beef with Jewish people in general. I played a big part of that thread and never could get any answers from any that had issue with it as to why... not in the thread or PM. I've been out of town for the last week and needless to say I'm not surprised this topic has once again surfaced with the signing of another foreign player. Thats all I will say in regards to this topic as I'm pretty sure I got warned about making a stand on this topic last time around.

[SubGod22]

Most people who were against it would have been even more upset about it if it were the US flag tied around his neck and worn as a cape. Not to mention all the makeup.......face paint he ended up getting smeared all over the flag. I'd be surprised if anyone had issues with it because it was Israel. They're a very close ally and respected by most of us I'd assume. That's probably another reason it rubbed so many the wrong way. It's considered in very poor taste and bad policy to wear the American flag in such a manor. Some seem to have moved past that and have no issues while many have not. That's where the divide was. To say that people were against it because it wasn't the US flag or that they must be anti Israel or the Jewish people is flat out ignorant.

[t7017s]

Most people who were against it would have been even more upset about it if it were the US flag tied around his neck and worn as a cape. Not to mention all the makeup.......face paint he ended up getting smeared all over the flag. I'd be surprised if anyone had issues with it because it was Israel. They're a very close ally and respected by most of us I'd assume. That's probably another reason it rubbed so many the wrong way. It's considered in very poor taste and bad policy to wear the American flag in such a manor. Some seem to have moved past that and have no issues while many have not. That's where the divide was. To say that people were against it because it wasn't the US flag or that they must be anti Israel or the Jewish people is flat out ignorant.

Are you calling me ignorant for saying this...

[/quote]I'm not exactly sure who its disrespectful to or why anyone would consider it disrespectful in any regards unless they have a beef with Jewish people in general.[/quote]

I simply stated that I couldnt understand why said people would have beef unless the obvious (antisemitism) was involved. I never stated that those with beef in regards to the issue had it because they were antisemitic. Please be careful with my words and how you read them and how you interpret them. I am not ignorant! I understand and agree with your post in regards to the American flag and the rules, practices, respects given etc in regards to it. However the issue was never an "American flag". Not trying to start anything with you or be argumentitve... I'm just defending myself and I sure you can understand and respect that.

[DUShock]

Subscribing...

[SubGod22]

You pretty much implied anyone who had issues with it must have something against Jewish people. I read it a few times before responding and did again and still can't seem to interpret it any differently. But I guess you're saying that you understand that people have a beef with it without being antisemitic, but you don't understand how someone could be against it unless they were? Maybe I'm just too beat right now to fully comprehend what you've meant?

You also said "I think the problem was that it wasn't a USA flag". I think that would have made the responses back then even worse had it been and the majority of those who had issues looked at it like that. It would be disrespectful to do that with the American flag, and to do it to the flag of such a great ally was in very poor taste.

I wasn't calling you ignorant, but the comment that you quoted I felt was. There's a difference there. You've proven in your time on SN to not be ignorant, but that doesn't prevent you, myself or anyone else from making an ignorant comment from time to time. None of us are immune to that.

I definitely didn't and don't want to start any kind of war of words. But the way your first comment read, at least to me, I felt someone had to respond to it and I had some free time to spare.

Personally, I thought the flag thing was disrespectful and in poor taste and was something I'd never in a million years consider doing. But I definitely wasn't one of the ones who was as passionate about the whole debate when it first came up. I respect the hell out of Israel and everything it has to put up with on a daily basis. Of which most of us never will be able to fully comprehend.

[rrshock]

How did this go from Ryan Martin wearing some KU clothing to talking about the Israeli flag issue again?

[ShockerFever]

How did this go from Ryan Martin wearing some KU clothing to talking about the Israeli flag issue again?

The missing link is Rip.

[t7017s]

You pretty much implied anyone who had issues with it must have something against Jewish people. I read it a few times before responding and did again and still can't seem to interpret it any differently. But I guess you're saying that you understand that people have a beef with it without being antisemitic, but you don't understand how someone could be against it unless they were? Maybe I'm just too beat right now to fully comprehend what you've meant?

You also said "I think the problem was that it wasn't a USA flag". I think that would have made the responses back then even worse had it been and the majority of those who had issues looked at it like that. It would be disrespectful to do that with the American flag, and to do it to the flag of such a great ally was in very poor taste.

I wasn't calling you ignorant, but the comment that you quoted I felt was. There's a difference there. You've proven in your time on SN to not be ignorant, but that doesn't prevent you, myself or anyone else from making an ignorant comment from time to time. None of us are immune to that.

I definitely didn't and don't want to start any kind of war of words. But the way your first comment read, at least to me, I felt someone had to respond to it and I had some free time to spare.

Personally, I thought the flag thing was disrespectful and in poor taste and was something I'd never in a million years consider doing. But I definitely wasn't one of the ones who was as passionate about the whole debate when it first came up. I respect the hell out of Israel and everything it has to put up with on a daily basis. Of which most of us never will be able to fully comprehend.

It doesn't really matter whether this issue is based upon the premise of upholding patriotism via respecting established symbols and tenets or whether it is simply nationalism in disguise. What matters is that it was meant as a show of support for a team member. It may be considered flag defacement, but the intent was, at base, good - and that is why I assert the notion that some of the negative responses could be rooted in bigotry. I don't consider this ignorant; I consider it plausible and relevant.

I'm not accusing those individuals who were upset about the gesture, of anti-semitism. I am offering the notion, amid the uncertainty of why this has been made such a big deal, that these tendencies could be present. It's not an indictment, it's an idea. It's not a conviction, it's merely a possibility. It's the only logical reason that I (I'm not speaking for anyone else) could connect with the notion of the gesture being"disrespectful".