2017-18 Smack Talk

[MoValley John]

Get a clue. I don't give a crap about isu. Nobody gives a crap about isu. Nothing you show me or anyone will get them a seat at the table.

You are exactly right, Iowa State doesn't get a seat at the table. But without football, neither does KU. You really need to get that clue. Your school leaders got the wakeup call, maybe with the $300mm price tag, you should figure it out too.

This isn't a joke, this isn't arguing to argue. This isn't trying to piss off KU fans, this is the reality outside of the KU bubble. The people making the decisions are in Chicago, far outside of the KU bubble, they want football, they need football, their decisions will be based on football and media, KU is woefully short in the two important factors.

I will make it simple for you, you can have the best basketball program in the world, and it doesn't matter if the decision makers are only asking about football. But the Pac 12 will take KU, just the way they are.

[Shocker1976]

I will make it simple for you, you can have the best basketball program in the world, and it doesn't matter if the decision makers are only asking about football. But the Pac 12 will take KU, just the way they are.

Pac 12 will take KU; I don't know about that. I think the Pac 12 would like to expand their footprint across the Southwest United States - adding Texas, New Mexico; another Texas school (TTU?); and, a Mountain Time Zone School to get to 16 members.

[MoValley John]

Pac 12 will take KU; I don't know about that. I think the Pac 12 would like to expand their footprint across the Southwest United States - adding Texas, New Mexico; another Texas school (TTU?); and, a Mountain Time Zone School to get to 16 members.

Okay, I didn't want to burst his bubble. The fact of the matter is this, the magic number is 64. Not 65. There are seven slots to fill and 10 Big 12 schools. There are also a handful of schools in the MWC and the American that will do anything to get an invite. Schools like BYU are wildcards. The key to being one of those seven schools is to have a football program competing and winning, with a football following that will drive viewership. Basketball is a great tiebreaker, but when the B1G, ACC, SEC and Pac look at filling their slots, they are looking at football. Last I checked, KU has a terrible and small stadium, embarrassingly crappy facilities, got curb stomped by Ohio last year and only have three "P-5" wins in the last five years. Tough sell.

[Veritas]

You are exactly right, Iowa State doesn't get a seat at the table. But without football, neither does KU. You really need to get that clue. Your school leaders got the wakeup call, maybe with the $300mm price tag, you should figure it out too.

This isn't a joke, this isn't arguing to argue. This isn't trying to piss off KU fans, this is the reality outside of the KU bubble. The people making the decisions are in Chicago, far outside of the KU bubble, they want football, they need football, their decisions will be based on football and media, KU is woefully short in the two important factors.

I will make it simple for you, you can have the best basketball program in the world, and it doesn't matter if the decision makers are only asking about football. But the Pac 12 will take KU, just the way they are.

Football is a very strong ingredient in getting the right mix. But it's not the only ingriedient. Market share, athletics, facilities, academics, geographic footprint, geographic balance, history, potential, school brand all add in the mix. Taking all of that into consideration, KU will wind up in a P4 conference and probably the B1G. ISU and KSU not as likely.

This isn't about being a pissed off KU fan or living within the KU bubble. I am neither of those. It is about objective reasoning. You mention the B1G is ONLY about football, yet take a look at their lastest additions. Those decisions weaken your argument.

[shox526]

Not that this has anything to do with 2017-18 smack talk, but hey it's the offseason, and this has for now become a realignment thread...

Consensus seems to be building that football as a cultural phenomenon is probably near or past its peak due to head trauma concerns. I will be surprised if someone doesn't come up with better helmet technology and that alleviates the concerns. But if that doesn't happen, is basketball-driven realignment coming in a decade or two? If so the SEC would seem to be in (long-term) trouble - not that they probably care while cashing enormous checks now.

[Cdizzle]

Not that this has anything to do with 2017-18 smack talk, but hey it's the offseason, and this has for now become a realignment thread...

Consensus seems to be building that football as a cultural phenomenon is probably near or past its peak due to head trauma concerns. I will be surprised if someone doesn't come up with better helmet technology and that alleviates the concerns. But if that doesn't happen, is basketball-driven realignment coming in a decade or two? If so the SEC would seem to be in (long-term) trouble - not that they probably care while cashing enormous checks now.

No. If football declines, soccer will take its place.

[LandStander]

No. If football declines, soccer will take its place.

I LOOOOOVE football but agree with this. I live in a bit of denial in regards to the head injuries and my passion for watching football. I do think football is on its way out and perhaps the universities know this and are trying to grab as much network cash now while they still can.

What I wonder is with this info, should WSU start investing now into soccer so in 20 years we have a strong and relevant program, especially since Kansas seems to be a hotbed of soccer talent?

[Cdizzle]

I LOOOOOVE football but agree with this. I live in a bit of denial in regards to the head injuries and my passion for watching football. I do think football is on its way out and perhaps the universities know this and are trying to grab as much network cash now while they still can.

What I wonder is with this info, should WSU start investing now into soccer so in 20 years we have a strong and relevant program, especially since Kansas seems to be a hotbed of soccer talent?

I think it would be a much smarter bet than trying to climb a crumbling mountain starting 400 miles away on the plains.

[martymoose]

Football is a very strong ingredient in getting the right mix. But it's not the only ingriedient. Market share, athletics, facilities, academics, geographic footprint, geographic balance, history, potential, school brand all add in the mix. Taking all of that into consideration, KU will wind up in a P4 conference and probably the B1G. ISU and KSU not as likely.

This isn't about being a pissed off KU fan or living within the KU bubble. I am neither of those. It is about objective reasoning. You mention the B1G is ONLY about football, yet take a look at their lastest additions. Those decisions weaken your argument.

Veritas, I hate to disagree with you because you usually have solid arguments, but if there's another conference realignment, I don't see how KU is not in major trouble. Basketball brings in pennies compared to football. It is all about football when it comes to the power conferences. When the Big 12 was on the verge of collapse a few years back the "experts" were putting KSU and other Big 12 members in other conferences but the only predictions for KU was dropped to a non power conference. Who knows what's going to happen but KU, in their current state don't have many options. Hopefully, for their sake, the $300m renovation happens and improves the football program.

[vbird53]

You are exactly right, Iowa State doesn't get a seat at the table. But without football, neither does KU. You really need to get that clue. Your school leaders got the wakeup call, maybe with the $300mm price tag, you should figure it out too.

This isn't a joke, this isn't arguing to argue. This isn't trying to piss off KU fans, this is the reality outside of the KU bubble. The people making the decisions are in Chicago, far outside of the KU bubble, they want football, they need football, their decisions will be based on football and media, KU is woefully short in the two important factors.

I will make it simple for you, you can have the best basketball program in the world, and it doesn't matter if the decision makers are only asking about football. But the Pac 12 will take KU, just the way they are.

KU hangs their hat on the blue-blood life-line, but I think an argument can be made that KU needs the Big 12 to remain viable more than anybody. Without that league to dominate on an annual basis in basketball, I'm not so sure they can retain the "blue blood" title. Put the "flagship" brand in the ACC or Big 10, and it becomes entirely watered down pretty quickly.

[MoValley John]

Football is a very strong ingredient in getting the right mix. But it's not the only ingriedient. Market share, athletics, facilities, academics, geographic footprint, geographic balance, history, potential, school brand all add in the mix. Taking all of that into consideration, KU will wind up in a P4 conference and probably the B1G. ISU and KSU not as likely.

This isn't about being a pissed off KU fan or living within the KU bubble. I am neither of those. It is about objective reasoning. You mention the B1G is ONLY about football, yet take a look at their lastest additions. Those decisions weaken your argument.

First off, Maryland and Rutgers were brought in for media markets, I've talked media markets previously. A fragmented KC and Wichita will not turn heads. So, KU doesn't win the media market battle, and you don't even want to bring up facilities, I've been to Lawrence, and half Of the Big 12 campuses, Jayhawk athletic facilities are horrendous. They are dated and in poor shape, hence my photos of Iowa State. Iowa State, of all places, puts Kansas facilities to shame, it's not even a contest.

From the outside looking in, Kansas loses every argument, except for basketball. Unfortunately, the decision is being made about football.

But keep the faith. And when they ask you to donate, dig deep, really deep. That $300mm isn't going to come easy.

[MoValley John]

Not that this has anything to do with 2017-18 smack talk, but hey it's the offseason, and this has for now become a realignment thread...

Consensus seems to be building that football as a cultural phenomenon is probably near or past its peak due to head trauma concerns. I will be surprised if someone doesn't come up with better helmet technology and that alleviates the concerns. But if that doesn't happen, is basketball-driven realignment coming in a decade or two? If so the SEC would seem to be in (long-term) trouble - not that they probably care while cashing enormous checks now.

They are fixing football every day. Better helmets, better technique, stronger rules, stricter enforcement. In 20 years I don't see the game anywhere near what it is today, but it won't be gone. Changed, yes, ginger, no.

On another note, the game everybody should be oaying attention to is lacrosse. Lacrosse is booming right now.

[WSUwatcher]

You may have something about lacrosse, John. I've always advocated for soccer even though I think it's boring, because if the Akron F Zips can win a D-1 national championship so can WSU (although the same could probably be said for Coastal Carolina and baseball, and we see how that's worked out this decade -- at least there WSU has already won one, though). The Shocks also have a convenient piece of land with a facility on it that could be retrofitted for soccer.

But one of these days the plaintiffs' lawyers are going to figure out that too many headers (or kicks in the head?) can jangle your brains too, and who knows what happens then, even though soccer is one of those semi-sacred, politically correct, global citizen type games? So maybe lacrosse is the answer -- at least they already wear helmets.

[Shocker1976]

Okay, I didn't want to burst his bubble. The fact of the matter is this, the magic number is 64. Not 65. There are seven slots to fill and 10 Big 12 schools. There are also a handful of schools in the MWC and the American that will do anything to get an invite. Schools like BYU are wildcards. The key to being one of those seven schools is to have a football program competing and winning, with a football following that will drive viewership. Basketball is a great tiebreaker, but when the B1G, ACC, SEC and Pac look at filling their slots, they are looking at football. Last I checked, KU has a terrible and small stadium, embarrassingly crappy facilities, got curb stomped by Ohio last year and only have three "P-5" wins in the last five years. Tough sell.

If we stay focused on football, ten (10) slots are available once the P5 morphs into the P4; I agree with you that a number of schools beyond the Big 12 will be vying for one of those ten slots. IMO five schools are certain to receive an invitation and one is very likely:

1. Notre Dame (Currently ACC for BB; B1G has major interest for FB)
2. Oklahoma (SEC)
3. Texas (PAC12; lot of baggage)
4. Oklahoma State (SEC; tied to Oklahoma?)
5. New Mexico (PAC12)
6. WVU (ACC; especially if Notre Dame goes to B1G)
7. TTU (PAC12, tag along with Texas)

Under this scenario we are left with one invitation for the PAC12 and two for the B1G (best case scenario for the Beakers).

8. PAC12 Boise State; BYU; Colorado State; Air Force; San Diego State; or UNLV

9. & 10. B1G ranked on footprint Cincinnati; Iowa State; Kansas State; Kansas; clearly the Beakers have a good chance to be invited

Leaving Baylor and TCU out of consideration; unless the B1G is able to entice UNC and UVA to move, then the Beakers chances for being invited to the B1G are dead and they will clearly be left out of the new P4.

[AZ Shocker]

Since this is a "Smack Talk" thread I wanted to share something I heard on PHX sports radio last week after the NBA draft.

I did not recognize the name or where he played college ball when the Suns drafted at 4th. I happened to catch his interview on radio a couple days later and during the interview I learned he played 1 season at kansas.

Well during the interview he commented that he could've gone to any of the BIG schools but chose kansas. I found that comment somewhat interesting and a bit comical.