Ten Years Ago Today...

[ShanShock]

I appreciate everything HCMT did for WSU - including leaving. I don't think MT could have accomplished the things 3G has here. However, we would have never gotten 3G if MT hadn't started the building process. IMHO, 3G has taken our program places that none of us could have imagined 10 years ago. I'm excited about the next 10 years.

AMEN

[Woodrow]

I'm not holding it against him for taking Bowles to A&M. Even though it's considered bad etiquette.

I have to admit Turgeon lost credibility in my eyes when he took Bowles with him. HCGM refused to do the same thing with Winthrop recruits. HCGM believes in himself and instills that confidence in his players and WSU fans. Turgeon always seemed to doubt that he could win here and that demeanor seemed to follow him elsewhere. I am so glad it went the way it went. Never been more proud to be a Shocker!

[Ricardo del Rio]

I have my Little Orphen Annie decoder ring ready!!

So you are about my age.

Not many on this fine forum have any idea who Little Orphan Annie is.

[Play Angry]

She was such a nag about being sure to drink your ovaltine, gah.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I'm not holding it against him for taking Bowles to A&M. Even though it's considered bad etiquette.

I still am quite surprised because Coach Turgeon is a buttoned up tight person. I still have to believe that J. Schaus gave his blessing.

It was a final gift from AD Schaus to Coach Turgeon for raising the Shocker program from the ashes.

I saw virtually every game in the 90s. Maybe I saw all of them. The "Dave Stallworth faithful", we were called by Coach R. Smithson. Those were dark days. Extra dark.

[another shocker]

I have to admit Turgeon lost credibility in my eyes when he took Bowles with him. HCGM refused to do the same thing with Winthrop recruits. HCGM believes in himself and instills that confidence in his players and WSU fans. Turgeon always seemed to doubt that he could win here and that demeanor seemed to follow him elsewhere. I am so glad it went the way it went. Never been more proud to be a Shocker!

i don't think they're too happy with him over at maryland.

for all their problems throughout the 90's, turgeon was kind of lucky to land at wichita state, doncha' think? fan support through the roof. maybe that was a larry brown connection thing too.

[ShockingButTrue]

^^^ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.2ccadafd1e36 ^^^

This sentiment is what I felt when he was here. Just because we're WSU doesn't mean I was happy with going to NIT tournaments.

[Metalkatz]

Yup, I dont think anyone is knocking Turgeon for what he accomplished here. But you can tell in his mind WSU had a place, a level and that was just a fact. So it is refreshing to see Marshall see the WSU job with unfound optimism and hard work, a skys the limit approach and really do some awesome things to now being accepted to the AAC. Which by the way MidMajorMadness has declared we arent a mid major anymore!!!

[ShockTalk]

Mark's probably our 5th best coach (behind HCGM, Ralph Miller, Gene Johnson, and Gene Smithson) out of 25 spanning 113 years of Shocker hoops history. Maybe you throw Leonard Umnus ahead of him and knock him down to 6th best although the difference in eras makes it hard to measure. He has the 4th most wins in program history.

I don't get the need to belittle his achievements. He inherited a decrepit mess and did an excellent job turning things around. He is no HCGM, to be sure, but he accomplished a great deal and I am grateful for his efforts during his tenure.

I'm not sure I would say anyone is belittling MT's achievements at WSU. In one post or another, by each poster who had criticism, they also acknowledged and thanked his coming to WSU at the time he did and greatly appreciated where he took us in 2006. On the other hand, had aTm not needed a coach and their AD had not been a friend of MT, I'm not certain at all where we'd be today except probably not in the AAC.

That's not a knock. Maybe with Tad, but certainly without Tad and with the east coast honk Spin at his side (yes, I didn't like him), WSU was losing a coach ASAP. That's what most coaches do to schools like WSU or "at that level". That's the norm not a knock. I do believe MT's mindset was to move on pretty quickly up the ladder. He did that with aTm as well. He has had success at Maryland, but he is now "at that level" where that probably isn't enough. So he has a different problem now. I wish him the best. I also hold no ill will about Bowles as far as WSU is concerned. He wasn't going to end up here anyway. Others had got in his ear. What I didn't care for was that MT took Bowles knowing that he probably wasn't going to succeed. Bowles didn't and left.

The other part, which is more about HCGM than fHCMT, is that WSU/HCGM has been more successful nationally "at their level" than MT has been at his schools during that time "at their level". We are truly blessed.

[SHOCKvalue]

Not many on this fine forum have any idea who Little Orphan Annie is.

It's a prominent part of the movie "A Christmas Story".

[ShockingButTrue]

I'm not sure I would say anyone is belittling MT's achievements at WSU. In one post or another, by each poster who had criticism, they also acknowledged and thanked his coming to WSU at the time he did and greatly appreciated where he took us in 2006. On the other hand, had aTm not needed a coach and their AD had not been a friend of MT, I'm not certain at all where we'd be today except probably not in the AAC.

That's not a knock. Maybe with Tad, but certainly without Tad and with the east coast honk Spin at his side (yes, I didn't like him), WSU was losing a coach ASAP. That's what most coaches do to schools like WSU or "at that level". That's the norm not a knock. I do believe MT's mindset was to move on pretty quickly up the ladder. He did that with aTm as well. He has had success at Maryland, but he is now "at that level" where that probably isn't enough. So he has a different problem now. I wish him the best. I also hold no ill will about Bowles as far as WSU is concerned. He wasn't going to end up here anyway. Others had got in his ear. What I didn't care for was that MT took Bowles knowing that he probably wasn't going to succeed. Bowles didn't and left.

The other part, which is more about HCGM than fHCMT, is that WSU/HCGM has been more successful nationally "at their level" than MT has been at his schools during that time "at their level". We are truly blessed.

Good post. I'll add to it a little, and say it was a Chicken---- move. But hey that's just my opinion.

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[Play Angry]

How wild is this - when Turgeon departed, he had led WSU to 25% (2) of its NCAA Tournament wins in program history (8). The Dance had existed for 68 years at that point. Before the Sweet Sixteen run in 2006, we had not won an NCAA Tournament game since the Battle of New Orleans in 1981 (which was the only year we had won a game in the Dance dating back to 1965). Reaching and winning games at the NCAA Tournament is really, really hard.

HCGM has now won 10 games in the NCAA Tournament in 10 seasons. Just amazing.

[Play Angry]

Related: Scott Sutton fired today.

[im4wsu]

Related: Scott Sutton fired today.

What have you done for me lately?

[1972Shocker]

I really don't know the full story on the Turgeon and Bowles situation. But I have mixed feelings on the issue. Yeah, you recruited the kid to Wichita State but if he says Coach I'm not interested in Wichita State if you leave. If I can't go with you, I will go somewhere else. If that is, in fact, the mindset of the kid then a Coach taking him with him hasn't really done any harm to the offended school. They weren't going to have the player anyway. Now if a Coach actively campaigns for a player to back out and go with him that's a different story and if the kid has signed an LOI perhaps not totally legal either.