Shox vs. Carleton

[pie n eye]

It's just one game. In August. With 10 practices. Lots of newcomers. Like tropicalshox said, there's probably a good reason games like this shouldn't be televised.

The Shockernet meltdown was great though.

Also, Fred and Ron are gone. A couple people need to get over it.

[Ricardo del Rio]

The Shocks just got their butts kicked.

We cannot blame the clock for our crappy defense.

The short explanation is they played good and we played bad.

My thanks to our friends from the north for visiting our board and sharing their insights, which were spot on. And being civil.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Famous quote:

"We are pretty hard to beat, when we score 70 points."
---Coach Gregg Marshall, circa 2013

[Windiwu]

I suggest inviting them to Wichita in January to play a late buy game under ncaa rules in Koch.

[Dave Stalwart]

I suggest inviting them to Wichita in January to play a late buy game under ncaa rules in Koch.

Heck, I'd like to just add them to the early exhibition schedule. Rematch that team for an exhibition. Would be a great game and an opportunity to display the improvement that 3 months of practice makes.

[shock]

While we are at it, just add them to the MVC. As far as teams from out of country being allowed in NCAA, we already have SWOMO.

[Rally Doug]

Heck, I'd like to just add them to the early exhibition schedule. Rematch that team for an exhibition. Would be a great game and an opportunity to display the improvement that 3 months of practice makes.

I would also like to see a rematch. In the past, Carleton has played NCAA teams in the USA in exhibition games about one week before the start of the NCAA season. Ravens have played such games against Syracuse, Villanova, La Salle, Cincinnati, Louisville, etc.

The thing to remember is that Carleton will also be much better three months from now. The team has four more NCAA exhibition games in August, a four team away tournament against CIS teams in September, another similar four game home tournament in October and then three closed games/controlled scrimmages against good NCAA teams in the USA in late October/early November. No-one will ever hear the results of these closed games as they have to be run as controlled scrimmages to ensure that the NCAA teams they play do not have to count them as exhibition games and violate NCAA rules.

Looks like the Wichita game against McGill will be an easy win for the Shockers, as McGill lost yesterday 80-65 against Stetson. I thought Stetson was a very good team when they lost by nine to Carleton. I will have to keep an eye on them and see how they perform once the NCAA season starts.

[Bluzrover]

HCGM's offense is not built for a 24 second shot clock. The Valley especially doesn't play quick.

By design our sets don't start until 10-12 seconds into a possession. I thought we made too few adjustments for the shorter clock last year so six less seconds made it apparent to everyone.

Combine the slow tempo with no stops on defense and we got into that half court quagmire that happened all too often last year. Hopefully we will adjust, but out offense last year relied solely on defense/transition so I am not sure what to expect.

I recognize this trip for what it is, an opportunity for 3G to see what he has in new players and how to meld those new players into a team that can continue the success he's had at Wichita State. I also recognize the loss of Ron, Fred and Evan is significant as all here so well know.

But the thing that does trouble me is the lack of mental toughness and inability of the guards to penetrate the lane, two traits that seemed to plague this team last year. I think back as recently as March Madness and the UNI game in which we couldn't seem to drive the lane nor could we top UNI from driving our lane. It was so obvious what they were going to do that many of us in the stands were predicting it because they pretty much did it everytime down the court.

The lack of in game adjustments last year was frustrating. So, again, understand this was an exhibition game for which 3G admittedly did not scout or plan for, I'm worried about a trend that has been with this team for a couple years now.

[shockmonster]

You can believe that Gregg will use this game to get his points across to his team. He won't allow them to make excuses nor take it lightly. I have his players will listen and this was probably a part of his plan.

However, with that said, there are reasons ( if you want to analyze, besides them being good and us bad, although that was the case and we showed our youth and inexperience) for this. We were limited to 10 organized practices while their league doesn't limit them. Within the limited practice time, and our players who don't know our offense yet, we didn't expose our team to a scouting report of their favorite plays, what defense they run, the 8 second clock instead of the 10 second clock, the 24 Second clock as opposed to our 30 second clock, etc. Additionally, we were without one of our best players (MM maybe our best), and several others who may find their way to the lineup by the end of the year.

There were some things that happened that shouldn't including imo, we quit in the second half when things didn't go our way, we lacked some defensive fundamentals in keeping the player in front of us for much of the game, and they were more physical than we were, both on the defensive perimeter, and inside (where the rebounding totals showed we were not competing).

Whatever happened, this was a game in August that will be a learning experience. Carleton was a disciplined, physically mature team who showed our players how the game is to be played, and on the road. Unfortunately, this experience won't be the final learning experience during this year. We can expect this team, who is learning how to play, and who is searching for leadership (with Fred and Ron gone), to have future experiences that aren't good. If this is still happening in January, it will be time to panic. This team will need for us to continue to back them through some of these experiences this year until they mature.

[WuDrWu]

Factors that probably benefited the Ravens:

1)They are really good.
2) Playing at home.
3) Didn't have same day travel to play game.
4) WSU playing 2nd game in 2 days, Ravens were not.
5) Ravens playing "their" rules. Shot clock, goaltending (bigger factor than you might think, re timing of missed shots)
6) Officiating familiarity
7) WSU best player out
8) Unwillingness to play our best post player
9) Possible one...WSU didn't scout opponent. Perhaps neither did the Ravens.

Biggest factor is that the Ravens are good. But make no mistake, playing NCAA rules on our court, with the same players, it wouldn't be pretty.

I'm taking NOTHING away from them, just spitballing.

[chitown_shocker]

WSU lost two greats last year.

It is going to take time for the team to really figure out where/how everyone fits.

When you replace that much good experience you are going to be inconsistent.

This team will likely be a little Jekyll and Hyde.

Add in the fact that these games are glorified practice, and the new guys have had limited time with Gregg and I am not surprised they had an awful day.

It is what it is. This season is going to be a tough one, but this team can - and likely will - be very good.

[Kel Varnsen]

WSU lost two greats last year.

It is going to take time for the team to really figure out where/how everyone fits.

When you replace that much good experience you are going to be inconsistent.

This team will likely be a little Jekyll and Hyde.

Add in the fact that these games are glorified practice, and the new guys have had limited time with Gregg and I am not surprised they had an awful day.

It is what it is. This season is going to be a tough one, but this team can - and likely will - be very good.

Very well-put.

[ShockdaWorld]

There was no evidence of the Shox having a PG on the court today. Maybe that's not on Smith and Frankamp.

I didn't see anythign resembling getting the team into an offensive flow. The post players kept tossing up 3's because the guards kept passing them the ball on the perimeter with 5 seconds left on the shot clock.

With a 24-second shot clock, Frankamp needs to put up a shot any time he's got some shooting room and there's less than 10 seconds on the shot clock.

Another thing I didn't see was a PG trying to break down the D. All I saw was some dribbling and then passing to a wing on the perimeter. It's hard to get assists when shots aren't falling. It's hard for shots to fall when the player getting the ball isn't in a position to shoot or attack the basket, and that's where players were when they got a pass from a guard.

I have to wonder if some (a little) of that was intentional. To be honest, it looked like several games we played late last year, when Fred would just walk the ball up the court, dribble around until there were 5 or so seconds left on the shot clock and then try to make a move to get a shot or get the ball to a shooter, sometimes resulting in a pretty bad shot or a bad option taking the shot. Just seemed kind of familiar. Obviously Fred was much better prepared for that kind of situation than anyone we have playing that position now. Also, I know the competition level was much different between the two games, but in the first game (when CF, LS, ZB, RK, and SM) started, we seemed a lot more aggressive and forceful in our approach early in the game than we were in the second game (when DS, LS, ZB, DW, and SM) started. I know those guys (CF and RK) came off the bench and didn't help much, but just for the start of the game, it seemed to make a difference, maybe because of having more experience in the system.

[kcshocker11]

I am not worried after watching the game. The problems I saw, can and I believe will be fixed. Lane penetration with kickouts, defense along the baseline, rebounding positioning, etc will come together.

[Slim]

Cj Keyser can really defend the 1-3. I know he's only a freshman , but I think his defense will help him get mins. He thrives on the end. He has to get healthy and prove to the coaches he deserves minutes.