the 100 greatest Shocker players

[im4wsu]

Rick Conn?

Boo Craft, John Crum

[jocoshock]

David Kyles is still better than these guys 80-90.

David "Cadillac" Kyles....

[Shocker1976]

My dad told me that same story about Coach Miller requiring Gene to hold his hands over his head to avoid being called with a foul.

[jocoshock]

Where did I say Kyles was bad? Actually said "I'm not saying that he shouldn't have been higher".

Carl Hall and David Kyles were not competing for the same minutes. Hall was competing with Stutz, EO, Smith, and White. So, that's just not a good argument.

I assume "Wing Guard" is the 3? If you add Murry's minutes with the balance of minutes Smith had not playing the 4, those minutes are basically gone. I feel pretty confident in this as Stutz and EO played only the 5 with remaining minutes going to Hall. Hall's remaining minutes were at the 4 along with White. Most any remaining minutes probably went to Smith. Smith remaining minutes would have been at the 3. Now I take Ragland's minutes at the PG with the remaining mostly going to Williams. Williams' remaining minutes are at the 2 (something like 360) where he started (22) all but the one game Ragland missed and most of freshman Cotton's 310. As senior David was playing mostly the 2, he was splitting the available minutes with junior Willliams and Cotton (about 40% went to them). Williams as a sophomore started only 1 game and increased his minutes by about 340 as a junior.

All I'm saying is that Kyles lost minutes, as a senior, to a junior who greatly increased his minutes and freshman Cotton (whether he played the 2 or the 3). Again, not saying Kyles is a bad player at all. I'm just not buying the head and shoulders better than all or most of the 80-99 ahead of him.

David lost those minutes to DW and TC after the New Years Eve home loss to Creighton. Too much offensive flash, not enough defensive intensity on a consistent basis. Part of the reason coach put the Cadillac moniker on him.

I believe that same year we beat Creighton by 20 on their home court later in the season (haven't fact checked yet).

[ShockerPrez]

1. Dave Stallworth
2. Xavier McDaniel
3. Cleo Littleton
4. Antoine Carr
5. Fred VanVleet
6. Ron Baker
7. Warren Jabali
8. Gene Wiley
9. Cheese Johnson
10. Cleanthony Early

We are living in good times when arguably 3 of the top 10 best players were on the same team.

And they had Cotton!!

[AZ Shocker]

Probably not quite enough stats to garner Top-10 status...but in my heart...I'm hard-pressed not to include one Tekele Cotton on my Top-10 list. What a fun player (with the heart of a lion) to watch!!!

[wufan]

We are living in good times when arguably 3 of the top 10 best players were on the same team.

And they had Cotton!!

On @WuDrWu:'s list are three Shockers that played to a final four and an undefeated season. Also, the 81-82 team had the three elite bigs. The other four played back-to-back with one entering the program as the other exited...Littleton followed by Wiley followed by Stallworth followed by Armstrong/Jabali.

Edit: I notice that Cliff Levingston was not on docs list.

[pinstripers]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article56273115.html

70-80

[ShockTalk]

I'll wait to see what others have to say as I may see it differently later, but I thought there was a number of these players I'd put further down the list. Need to check the record books and refresh the memory.

[pinstripers]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/bob-lutz/article57490283.html

the 60's

[pinstripers]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/bob-lutz/article58882828.html

[pinstripers]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article60255636.html

[pinstripers]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/bob-lutz/article61512017.html

wow............some good ones

[ArtVandalay]

Love PJ Cousinard. He was a year younger than me at WSU so he was a huge part of the Shocker teams I first really followed. Under sized but played with so much energy. He'd be higher in the list if he had four years under Marshall.

[im4wsu]

Bob Hodgson had such a pretty hook shot. He shot it mostly stepping parallel to the baseline starting from the low block. Either hand from either block.