the 100 greatest Shocker players

[1972Shocker]

the 6'10" Serb.............cannot think of his name........dementia

Sasha Radunavich.

[pinstripers]

the 6'10" Serb.............cannot think of his name........dementia

Sasha Radunavich.......

[shockmonster]

Ernie Moore would be a Top 30 ish type of player. One of the Top 5 point guards in Shocker history.

[pinstripers]

Ernie Moore would be a Top 30 ish type of player. One of the Top 5 point guards in Shocker history.

yes

[1972Shocker]

Gene Wiley might be top 25. One of only 2 Shockers, the other being Warren (Armstrong) Jabali, to record 4 career triple doubles.

[Ashockalypse]

Jay Jackson has to be on the list somewhere.

[1972Shocker]

My prediction is the Dave The Rave will be No.1 on this list. He is my all-time favorite Shocker player and that is where I personally would have him. More importantly, however, is that he is Bob Lutz' all-time favorite and most revered Shocker player.

Keep in mind that Freshman were not eligible in those days and that those days were also the greatest and best days of Missouri Valley basketball on a national level. The Valley of Death. One of the best, if not the best, basketball conferences in the country.

Dave played in 80 games as a Shocker. If he played in the 130 to 140 games that many of today's 4-year players play he would be a 3,000 point career scorer. (Not to mention they did not have a 3-point line in those days).

Dave also had many of his best games in the biggest games against the toughest opponents.

[pinstripers]

I agree that Lutz will likely have Dave at #1. He also will likely have Elmore in the top 10.

[SHOXAAC]

Some others you leave off. Carrington, Wilson, Paul Miller, Carney, Troegle, Shirley, Ron Washington, and others that I am forgetting right now.

There are some great individual players that didn't have the benefit of a good team around them. Ron Harris and Vince Smith come to mind. I also wonder where Tekele lands.

[wufan]

Some others you leave off. Carrington, Wilson, Paul Miller, Carney, Troegle, Shirley, Ron Washington, and others that I am forgetting right now.

Carney is the only one I see in the top 25 from that list.

[JMAN_KC]

Mike Jones better be in there somewhere, just for his two 25 footers to beat KU...

[ShockTalk]

If Kyles was so bad, why did he play more minutes than Carl Hall? That's just not a good argument. Seven players played between 22 and 29 minutes. There was a ton of competition at the wing guard for minutes with Toure, David, and Ben Smith. So long as Ben Smith and Demetric Williams don't make the top 100 then I guess Kyles can hold that spot.

Where did I say Kyles was bad? Actually said "I'm not saying that he shouldn't have been higher".

Carl Hall and David Kyles were not competing for the same minutes. Hall was competing with Stutz, EO, Smith, and White. So, that's just not a good argument.

I assume "Wing Guard" is the 3? If you add Murry's minutes with the balance of minutes Smith had not playing the 4, those minutes are basically gone. I feel pretty confident in this as Stutz and EO played only the 5 with remaining minutes going to Hall. Hall's remaining minutes were at the 4 along with White. Most any remaining minutes probably went to Smith. Smith remaining minutes would have been at the 3. Now I take Ragland's minutes at the PG with the remaining mostly going to Williams. Williams' remaining minutes are at the 2 (something like 360) where he started (22) all but the one game Ragland missed and most of freshman Cotton's 310. As senior David was playing mostly the 2, he was splitting the available minutes with junior Willliams and Cotton (about 40% went to them). Williams as a sophomore started only 1 game and increased his minutes by about 340 as a junior.

All I'm saying is that Kyles lost minutes, as a senior, to a junior who greatly increased his minutes and freshman Cotton (whether he played the 2 or the 3). Again, not saying Kyles is a bad player at all. I'm just not buying the head and shoulders better than all or most of the 80-99 ahead of him.

[ShockTalk]

Ernie Moore would be a Top 30 ish type of player. One of the Top 5 point guards in Shocker history.

Maybe top 20 or a little better.

[ShockTalk]

I agree that Lutz will likely have Dave at #1. He also will likely have Elmore in the top 10.

I loved Elmore, but he's more likely top 20, maybe 15.

[ShockTalk]

I thought about that. Robert Elmore, Toure Murry, Kelly Pete, Cal Bruton, Nate Bowman, Jamie Thompson? Where do one hit wonders Stutz and Ragland fit in?

Strong group there. Probably all top 20 (or very close) with some top 15.