Official: Wichita State vs Seton Hall Game Thread

[asiseeit]

I see two scenarios for a certain path to the F64. Either win the tournament or sweep UNI and
win the conference regular season with no more than two losses.

[ShockdaWorld]

I have stayed off SN for the last couple days in order not to offend any of my fellow Shocker fans who happen to also be basketball officials or official apologists/sympathizers. I also wanted to watch the game again without being completely emotionally charged. So, I watched the game again last night, and my opinion changed very little. Two of FVV's turnovers were charge calls that may or may not have been charges, but were called as blocks on the other end of the floor almost immediately after. Another was when his arm got taken off the ball. I'm not sure if they consider a blocked shot a turnover or not if the other team recovers it, but there were some of those as well. FVV was getting hammered every time he took the ball to the basket and the stripes swallowed their whistles. On the other end, every bump was called. I'm not sure which end was correct, but I know there was zero consistency from one end of the court to the other. We also committed some careless, unforced turnovers, quite a few more than we normally do. I know people want to say "we committed 21 turnovers, that's why we lost." How many of those turnovers were uncalled fouls or offensive fouls that were called differently on the other end? We didn't play as well as we could've/should've. We didn't need our best game to beat Seton Hall. We needed our best game to beat Seton Hall and the zebras. With an even whistle, we win that game by 8, at least. Disagree if you want, but some stats don't lie. 35-14 free throws is a beat down by the referees, not the opposing team.

[shocka khan]

ridiculous and stupid post by someone who thinks they are smarter than coach.

I'm not as smart as the coach, but I'm smarter than you. I predicted when we had the issues in Orlando that Wessel would cost us a game. He did.

If coach keeps playing him 38 minutes a game and allowing him to jack up 3's at the end in a close one, we will lose another one.

You don't have to be smart to see that coach has some sort of an infatuation for Evan. Call it a blind spot. Sort of like a parent that loves their kid so much they can't see the whole picture. He loves Evan's hustle but doesn't recognize the fact that he does very little for us when he's out on the floor. When we play well, it works great. When we play bad at the end like we did on Saturday it will cost us games.

I think the problem here is that coach is so infatuated with Evan he's not seeing that he is a liability at the end of a close game. Especially when he's shooting. That has more to do with emotion and less to do with intelligence.

So while I agree that Coach is smarter than me, he's making decisions right now based on loyalty and emotion rather than on what can get us a W.

What's your excuse?

[asiseeit]

To blame the loss on EW is simply absurd.

[ShockerFever]

You do understand there's more to the game of basketball than shooting, don't you?

You have the ability to think however you want but your tirade is getting pretty dumb now.

[shocka khan]

I have stayed off SN for the last couple days in order not to offend any of my fellow Shocker fans who happen to also be basketball officials or official apologists/sympathizers. I also wanted to watch the game again without being completely emotionally charged. So, I watched the game again last night, and my opinion changed very little. Two of FVV's turnovers were charge calls that may or may not have been charges, but were called as blocks on the other end of the floor almost immediately after. Another was when his arm got taken off the ball. I'm not sure if they consider a blocked shot a turnover or not if the other team recovers it, but there were some of those as well. FVV was getting hammered every time he took the ball to the basket and the stripes swallowed their whistles. On the other end, every bump was called. I'm not sure which end was correct, but I know there was zero consistency from one end of the court to the other. We also committed some careless, unforced turnovers, quite a few more than we normally do. I know people want to say "we committed 21 turnovers, that's why we lost." How many of those turnovers were uncalled fouls or offensive fouls that were called differently on the other end? We didn't play as well as we could've/should've. We didn't need our best game to beat Seton Hall. We needed our best game to beat Seton Hall and the zebras. With an even whistle, we win that game by 8, at least. Disagree if you want, but some stats don't lie. 35-14 free throws is a beat down by the referees, not the opposing team.

I partially agree, except I cannot and do not accept the fact that the refs beat us. If we know how the refs are calling the game, we have to change our tactics. And there were more than enough mental breakdowns that if we had eliminated them, we would have won the game.

Maybe my feelings eminate from living here in Texas and hearing Longhorns and Sooners kvetch over the years about how the refs jobbed them during a football game. After doing some thinking and research about it, most of the time, I found those claims to be sour grapes. Truly good teams find a way to win, no matter what, no excuses.

We are not truly good right now.

[Stickboy46]

I have stayed off SN for the last couple days in order not to offend any of my fellow Shocker fans who happen to also be basketball officials or official apologists/sympathizers. I also wanted to watch the game again without being completely emotionally charged. So, I watched the game again last night, and my opinion changed very little. Two of FVV's turnovers were charge calls that may or may not have been charges, but were called as blocks on the other end of the floor almost immediately after. Another was when his arm got taken off the ball. I'm not sure if they consider a blocked shot a turnover or not if the other team recovers it, but there were some of those as well. FVV was getting hammered every time he took the ball to the basket and the stripes swallowed their whistles. On the other end, every bump was called. I'm not sure which end was correct, but I know there was zero consistency from one end of the court to the other. We also committed some careless, unforced turnovers, quite a few more than we normally do. I know people want to say "we committed 21 turnovers, that's why we lost." How many of those turnovers were uncalled fouls or offensive fouls that were called differently on the other end? We didn't play as well as we could've/should've. We didn't need our best game to beat Seton Hall. We needed our best game to beat Seton Hall and the zebras. With an even whistle, we win that game by 8, at least. Disagree if you want, but some stats don't lie. 35-14 free throws is a beat down by the referees, not the opposing team.

Very well said. Not counting the offensive fouls, there were MULTIPLE "turnovers" that were a direct result of a mugging that wasn't called. You can be expected to hold onto the ball every time if you are getting hacked from 2 different people. I'd venture that we actually had less than half the number of turnovers that were "real" turnovers. This is the type of stuff that makes it hard to watch College Basketball. The best team isn't allowed to win sometimes. No matter what, they weren't going to let WSU win.

In OT Seton Hall scored 13 points .... 11 came on free throws ... 11 of 13 in the most critical point of the game. 8 fouls called on WSU to 0 for Seton Hall in OT. Five minutes of gameplay. 8 Fouls to zero. Seton Hall played perfectly clean ... while we were hacking everyone.

[Stickboy46]

I partially agree, except I cannot and do not accept the fact that the refs beat us. If we know how the refs are calling the game, we have to change our tactics. And there were more than enough mental breakdowns that if we had eliminated them, we would have won the game.

Maybe my feelings eminate from living here in Texas and hearing Longhorns and Sooners kvetch over the years about how the refs jobbed them during a football game. After doing some thinking and research about it, most of the time, I found those claims to be sour grapes. Truly good teams find a way to win, no matter what, no excuses.

We are not truly good right now.

Disagree with the last part. Look at my last post. How do you win an OT game, when you get called for 8 fouls in OT, and the other team zero. The other team gets 11 of 13 points off FTs .. and you don't get to shoot 1 in OT. We aren't as good as we can be, but we were good enough to win that game comfortably.

[shocka khan]

You do understand there's more to the game of basketball than shooting, don't you?

You have the ability to think however you want but your tirade is getting pretty dumb now.

A number of people have demonstrated +- evidence on Evan that backs up my point. His ratings seem to suggest he doesn't really do anything positive or negative.

I get the fact that everyone in Wichita likes him and he's a crowd favorite. That's why I consistently say he ought to be out on the floor. Coach just needs to be more strategic about it.

If this was someone from Oklahoma City who had not displayed any improvement over the 5 year career he's had here, I kind of doubt that either you or Shockdaworld would be so vigorously defending your positions right now. You'd probably want him kicked off the team or have his scholly forfeited at the end of the season.

[ShockerFever]

I partially agree, except I cannot and do not accept the fact that the refs beat us. If we know how the refs are calling the game, we have to change our tactics. And there were more than enough mental breakdowns that if we had eliminated them, we would have won the game.

Maybe my feelings eminate from living here in Texas and hearing Longhorns and Sooners kvetch over the years about how the refs jobbed them during a football game. After doing some thinking and research about it, most of the time, I found those claims to be sour grapes. Truly good teams find a way to win, no matter what, no excuses.

We are not truly good right now.

We are not truly good. We played bad basketball at times (especially in crunch time). Seton Hall was amped for the game.

Officials can absolutely control outcomes of games though. To think these clowns are perfect or not human and should be set up on an infallible pedestal is bullshit. The game was CLEARLY called one-sided. There was ZERO doubt about it. Even with the horrible turnovers, the shitty end of games by Fred and Ron, and the horrible officiating, the Shox were a free throw away from still winning the basketball game on the road against a decent team. That almost in a way is pretty amazing.

[shocka khan]

Disagree with the last part. Look at my last post. How do you win an OT game, when you get called for 8 fouls in OT, and the other team zero. The other team gets 11 of 13 points off FTs .. and you don't get to shoot 1 in OT. We aren't as good as we can be, but we were good enough to win that game comfortably.

Our RPI is 71 right now. Rightly or wrongly, we have to live with that stink. Until we can prove otherwise, we are not a good team right now. I'm not saying we won't be good, we're just not good right at this moment.

[ShockerFever]

If this was someone from Oklahoma City who had not displayed any improvement over the 5 year career he's had here, I kind of doubt that either you or Shockdaworld would be so vigorously defending your positions right now. You'd probably want him kicked off the team or have his scholly forfeited at the end of the season.

And now you're going full-blown retard.

[Stickboy46]

Our RPI is 71 right now. Rightly or wrongly, we have to live with that stink. Until we can prove otherwise, we are not a good team right now. I'm not saying we won't be good, we're just not good right at this moment.

Our RPI is not good, correct. Our RPI is now based on 5 short handed games. 1 with a Hobbled FVV. 3 Missing at least 3 key members, and 1 where we were playing 5 on 8. I'm not buying that we aren't a good team. Utah game was great. Seton Hall game would have been great, but you can't look great when the other team is allowed to mug you at all times. You can't "adjust" to that unless you just start trying to make half court threes because everytime you get close you get mugged with no call.

[shocka khan]

Fever, I always knew you were lacking in some intellect. The first refuge of a man who has no argument is name-calling. You're consistently doing that. Not to mention using a slur reserved for someone who is learning-disadvantaged. So who in your family has down's syndrome, Fever? Do you think they would be proud of you right now?

I had a nephew with Down's Syndrome. He was a cute, loveable kid born with Down's and a hole in his heart, which ultimately claimed his life after about 5 surgeries at 4 years old.

He was much braver and kinder than you are, Fever.

[ShockdaWorld]

A number of people have demonstrated +- evidence on Evan that backs up my point. His ratings seem to suggest he doesn't really do anything positive or negative.

I get the fact that everyone in Wichita likes him and he's a crowd favorite. That's why I consistently say he ought to be out on the floor. Coach just needs to be more strategic about it.

If this was someone from Oklahoma City who had not displayed any improvement over the 5 year career he's had here, I kind of doubt that either you or Shockdaworld would be so vigorously defending your positions right now. You'd probably want him kicked off the team or have his scholly forfeited at the end of the season.

What the f...? What position was I trying to defend? I stated very clearly in one single post what my opinion was of the game. We could've played better and beaten SH and the refs. We played well enough to beat SH, but not well enough to beat them AND the officials. What point does that show that I am trying to defend? I happen to be one of the few that actually agrees with you that EW gets more minutes than he should.