Take a Step Back, Take a Big Breath

[wsushox1]

Our freshman are legit really good but, sans 5-star, generational-type players, very few freshman are going to play 30+ minutes and be good--let alone great. We've become accustomed to great, and these freshman aren't there yet.

Relax everyone.

The sophomore class is troubling, I must agree.

[Aargh]

aargh,

Wow, when did you go batshit stupid?

I don't think I did. The curse of "mid majors" is that they flash into national attention and then disappear again.

Next year there are no Sr's. PG will be one of 3 players with little D1 experience. The Jr class isn't looking strong for next year. The So class next year looks solid. That's not a formula for winning the Valley.

Marshall owes VanVleet and Baker about $1 mill each for every year he earns $3 mill. I haven't seen anything Marshall has done to earn his money other than bringing those two guys in. I'm not seeing a lot, other than this year's Fr, after they're gone.

Everybody out here rags on Morris, Kelly, and Brown for their inability to contribute. My position is that either Marshall recruited some stiffs or Marshall has been unable to develop his recruits. If Marshall recruited them and Marshall developed them, and they're stiffs, is that the fault of the players?

[wsushox1]

I don't think I did. The curse of "mid majors" is that they flash into national attention and then disappear again.

Next year there are no Sr's. PG will be one of 3 players with little D1 experience. The Jr class isn't looking strong for next year. The So class next year looks solid. That's not a formula for winning the Valley.

Marshall owes VanVleet and Baker about $1 mill each for every year he earns $3 mill. I haven't seen anything Marshall has done to earn his money other than bringing those two guys in. I'm not seeing a lot, other than this year's Fr, after they're gone.

Everybody out here rags on Morris, Kelly, and Brown for their inability to contribute. My position is that either Marshall recruited some stiffs or Marshall has been unable to develop his recruits. If Marshall recruited them and Marshall developed them, and they're stiffs, is that the fault of the players?

Maybe you should read your signature again.....

[wsushox1]

If FVV doesn't make that shot against Gonzaga we're all talking about how he had a mediocre to 'non-rememberable' freshman year....

He's going to have his number in the rafters.

[Aargh]

I posted something about next year, so I'm certain of the "but next year is not what we're looking at now" posts.

So, here's what we're looking at now. 1-3. W/L against top 50: 0-2. SOS: 100

I know rpi is pretty meaningless right now, but in the MVC, we're ahead of only MSU, Bradley, and Drake right now.

Barry Hinson has SIU at 6-1 with a SoS of 58.
UNI is 3-1 with a SoS of 6 and a W over #1.

[ShockdaWorld]

I don't think I did. The curse of "mid majors" is that they flash into national attention and then disappear again.

Next year there are no Sr's. PG will be one of 3 players with little D1 experience. The Jr class isn't looking strong for next year. The So class next year looks solid. That's not a formula for winning the Valley.

Marshall owes VanVleet and Baker about $1 mill each for every year he earns $3 mill. I haven't seen anything Marshall has done to earn his money other than bringing those two guys in. I'm not seeing a lot, other than this year's Fr, after they're gone.

Everybody out here rags on Morris, Kelly, and Brown for their inability to contribute. My position is that either Marshall recruited some stiffs or Marshall has been unable to develop his recruits. If Marshall recruited them and Marshall developed them, and they're stiffs, is that the fault of the players?

Pardon me for being blunt, and if Kai decides this needs to be removed, so be it. This is the stupidest post I've ever read on ANY discussion board for any team. This is dumber than SWOMO saying Wichita is not a state. I have no idea who the person is that posted it, other than his name on this board, so I don't know, but for his sake, I hope he's a heavy drinker. That would be about the only excuse I could imagine for such blatant jackassery. We all know we're going through a rough patch right now, and there are multiple reasons why, but this is nothing more than someone with no intentions other than trying to be a rectum. I was on FB yesterday in a group that attempts to discuss Shocker Athletics without the negativity, and the admin stated very clearly that he avoids ShockerNet for no other reason than to avoid the negativity. I will not stop coming to ShockerNet, as I greatly enjoy much of the discussion, and have learned a lot from many of the posters. That being said, I will start ignoring people that are nothing more than negative Nancys. There are enough of those to deal with in real life, I don't need it here as well.

[Aargh]

Maybe you should read your signature again.....

I put that sig up when the Shox were struggling to get into the top 2 or 3 in the Valley. In that context it's still accurate, and I think the future is bright. I don't require F4's or S16's to think the Shox had a "bright" season.

[ShockerFever]

I don't think I did. The curse of "mid majors" is that they flash into national attention and then disappear again.

It is certifiably absurd to talk about WSU "disappearing" 5 f****** games into the season. Making big, sweeping generalizations about anything 5 f****** games into the season is grounds for immediate admittance into a mental institution.

Is Connecticut a mid major? How much do they pay their coach?
UCONN finished 20-15 last year losing in the first round of the NIT.

Is Michigan a mid major? How much do they pay their coach?
Michigan finished 15-16 last year with home losses to New Jersey Tech and Eastern Michigan. They didn't qualify for any post-season tournament.

Is Florida a mid major? How much do they pay their coach?
Florida finished 16-17 last year and did not qualify for any post-season tournament.

Is Syracuse a mid major? How much do they pay their coach?
Syracuse finished 18-13 last year and did not play in any post season.

These are just a few examples from last year. You could go back in any year in history and do the same thing.

Just a little perspective since you seem to lack any sort of it. With your recent posts, you've basically demonstrated that you are one of the most spoiled fans in modern history. You have made some of the most ludicrous assumptions based on 5 mother******* games into the season.

Please take a break from posting for a while. That or limit late night alcohol binges while browsing on the internets.

[Owp99]

Pardon me for being blunt, and if Kai decides this needs to be removed, so be it. This is the stupidest post I've ever read on ANY discussion board for any team. This is dumber than SWOMO saying Wichita is not a state. I have no idea who the person is that posted it, other than his name on this board, so I don't know, but for his sake, I hope he's a heavy drinker. That would be about the only excuse I could imagine for such blatant jackassery. We all know we're going through a rough patch right now, and there are multiple reasons why, but this is nothing more than someone with no intentions other than trying to be a rectum. I was on FB yesterday in a group that attempts to discuss Shocker Athletics without the negativity, and the admin stated very clearly that he avoids ShockerNet for no other reason than to avoid the negativity. I will not stop coming to ShockerNet, as I greatly enjoy much of the discussion, and have learned a lot from many of the posters. That being said, I will start ignoring people that are nothing more than negative Nancys. There are enough of those to deal with in real life, I don't need it here as well.

I agree with you that there is a lot of negativity on this site, and I got caught up in it too when I posted about ty taylor. There is still so much time left in the season and we have one of the best coaches in the nation who is more than capable of turning things around. This team will be so good when Fred and Conner are ready to play.

[shelback]

It's looking like I've accidentally logged onto phog.net every time I check in here lately. It's the attitude that Marshall can do no wrong, and regardless of the current record, and some obvious problems in the lineup, that the current team is still among the elite of D1 ball. It's not. Maybe it will be again, but right now, it's not.

The media, the pollsters, and the national audience look at "what have you done for me lately". Lately is looking like a 4-game losing streak Monday when the Shox are likely to fall out of "Others Receiving Votes".

The Jr class this year would have been Morris, Holland, and Derail Green. Was Bowles in that class? You can't lose an entire recruiting class and maintain elite status. The So class is looking like another bust. I still think the So's will get it together, but it's disturbing to see their progress going in reverse.

Losing an entire recruiting class and having the next one look like they have no clue what they should be doing on the court is not a good sign.

Marshall is in his learning curve on recruiting and coaching at the level he's risen to. There will be setbacks. Marshall is as responsible for the setbacks as he is for the successes. He can't control injuries, but he has to know they're going to happen and backup personnel need to be in place.

If Marshall was making MVC wages, the current situation wouldn't be so bad. Marshall is making $3M+ a year. Name one other coach making that kind of $$ who wouldn't be on the hot seat if they started a year the way the Shox started this year.

I'm not suggesting that Marshall be on the hot seat. I'd expect someone like Lusk at MSU, who makes $300K, to have an entirely useless recruiting class (Morris, Holland, Green) and another that looked lost in their second year (Kelly, Brown, Nurger).

We better hope the Fr class becomes something absolutely special. When Turgeon had recruiting problems, he left. If Marshall is ever going to leave, an empty Sr class and an underperforming Jr class would be the most likely time to leave.

Dude this team is struggling only because we are missing the best true point in the land and probably our 2nd best is not yet eligible. Taylor has look realy good considering he is just a freshman and running a very complex offense. Health will cure a lot of ills. We are missing FV's 15 ppg and flor leadership very few teams if any could overcome that. As for our sophomore class the jurry is still out those guys. Brown looked lost last year early and does again hopefully he is just a slow starter thus needs to work harder then he knows. Freshman class is loaded wow excited for those kids future. I fully expect this team to be as solid as we thought coming into the season when the pieces are back.

[CBB_Fan]

The real big problem I see is not that we are bad now or that we won't improve. We are, but we will.

The problem just comes down to getting good Ws. You can excuse some losses due to injury, but what happens when you don't have subsequent quality victories once the team is healthy? You miss the tournament. Can't happen to us? We are too good? Too much star power?

In 2008, Davidson made the Elite 8. In 2009, they missed the tournament because they didn't have a quality non-con despite having the nation's leading scorer, Stephen Curry. They dominated their conference, but lost 5 games outside of it. The losses were to #12 Oklahoma, #13 Purdue, #2 Duke, and #21 Butler (plus 1 to Saint Mary's in the NIT). Some of those weren't close, some were within a bucket. But ultimately, Davidson didn't have a quality win in the non-conference and that was enough to miss the tournament.

We get basically two shots in our remaining non-conference to pick up those good wins. Tomorrow, against the toughest opponent we've faced so far down three players to injury. And against Utah. Possibly UNLV, but they'll have to improve as the year goes on. In other words, we don't get a lot of chances to convince the selection committee that we are good when healthy. We absolutely have to hope that Evansville and UNI continue to do extremely well in the non-conference to get their RPIs up so that we have 3-5 games to get good wins while healthy.

I'm not saying we'll miss the tournament. I'm not saying we'll get an extremely bad seed. What I AM saying is that the margin is way thinner than usual because we have to prove we are good despite our early losses and we don't have a lot of chances to do that. In 2012-2013 we did that by beating Creighton (almost twice), getting to the MVC Final, and picking up some decent wins before our injuries struck. Instead of opening badly, we started off really well with decent to good victories over VCU, Iowa, and @AF and our losses started piling up after injury (in addition to the three major injuries I remember 5 other players lost time or games to injury that season, might be off). In other words, we might also get less slack because we are starting injured.

Best case scenario, we win both our must-wins in the non-conference, UNI and Evansville keep a top 50 RPI and we go 17-1 or 18-0 in the Valley. Everyone is happy, we probably earn a really great seed.
Middling scenario, we go 50/50 and get 2/3 quality wins from our conference. That gives us 3-4 quality wins, which is enough to easily get us out of the at-large discussion but not enough to secure more than a 5-7 seed.
Worst case scenario, we lose both and Evansville and UNI fall off the planet. We must win the MVC tournament to feel 100% on our odds at the tournament.

[Aargh]

OK. No negativity in this post, just facts

WSU: W/L - 1/3; SoS - 100; vs top 50 - 0-2; vs 51-200 - 0-1
SIU: W/L - 6/1; SoS - 58; vs top 50 - 0-0; vs 51-200 - 4-1

[ShockerFever]

OK. No negativity in this post, just facts

WSU: W/L - 1/3; SoS - 100; vs top 50 - 0-2; vs 51-200 - 0-1
SIU: W/L - 6/1; SoS - 58; vs top 50 - 0-0; vs 51-200 - 4-1

Absolutely fantastic facts 5 games into the season on November 29th, 2015.

You're giving KC a run for his money.

[ShockerFever]

The real big problem I see is not that we are bad now or that we won't improve. We are, but we will.

The problem just comes down to getting good Ws. You can excuse some losses due to injury, but what happens when you don't have subsequent quality victories once the team is healthy? You miss the tournament. Can't happen to us? We are too good? Too much star power?

In 2008, Davidson made the Elite 8. In 2009, they missed the tournament because they didn't have a quality non-con despite having the nation's leading scorer, Stephen Curry. They dominated their conference, but lost 5 games outside of it. The losses were to #12 Oklahoma, #13 Purdue, #2 Duke, and #21 Butler (plus 1 to Saint Mary's in the NIT). Some of those weren't close, some were within a bucket. But ultimately, Davidson didn't have a quality win in the non-conference and that was enough to miss the tournament.

We get basically two shots in our remaining non-conference to pick up those good wins. Tomorrow, against the toughest opponent we've faced so far down three players to injury. And against Utah. Possibly UNLV, but they'll have to improve as the year goes on. In other words, we don't get a lot of chances to convince the selection committee that we are good when healthy. We absolutely have to hope that Evansville and UNI continue to do extremely well in the non-conference to get their RPIs up so that we have 3-5 games to get good wins while healthy.

I'm not saying we'll miss the tournament. I'm not saying we'll get an extremely bad seed. What I AM saying is that the margin is way thinner than usual because we have to prove we are good despite our early losses and we don't have a lot of chances to do that. In 2012-2013 we did that by beating Creighton (almost twice), getting to the MVC Final, and picking up some decent wins before our injuries struck. Instead of opening badly, we started off really well with decent to good victories over VCU, Iowa, and @AF and our losses started piling up after injury (in addition to the three major injuries I remember 5 other players lost time or games to injury that season, might be off). In other words, we might also get less slack because we are starting injured.

Best case scenario, we win both our must-wins in the non-conference, UNI and Evansville keep a top 50 RPI and we go 17-1 or 18-0 in the Valley. Everyone is happy, we probably earn a really great seed.
Middling scenario, we go 50/50 and get 2/3 quality wins from our conference. That gives us 3-4 quality wins, which is enough to easily get us out of the at-large discussion but not enough to secure more than a 5-7 seed.
Worst case scenario, we lose both and Evansville and UNI fall off the planet. We must win the MVC tournament to feel 100% on our odds at the tournament.

White noise.

[Aargh]

Absolutely fantastic facts 5 games into the season on November 29th, 2015.

You're giving KC a run for his money.

We're paying Marshall $3mill+. SiU is paying Barry something like $80K. Marshall should be out performing Barry 5 games into the season.

We're paying elite wages and we're getting "MVC wages" results.

I guess I'm still an a-hole for my previous "there's some recruiting holes" posts. Did no one else see that we didn't have a Jr class or a backup PG?