Take a Step Back, Take a Big Breath

[Good News]

It's looking like I've accidentally logged onto phog.net every time I check in here lately. It's the attitude that Marshall can do no wrong, and regardless of the current record, and some obvious problems in the lineup, that the current team is still among the elite of D1 ball. It's not. Maybe it will be again, but right now, it's not.

The media, the pollsters, and the national audience look at "what have you done for me lately". Lately is looking like a 4-game losing streak Monday when the Shox are likely to fall out of "Others Receiving Votes".

The Jr class this year would have been Morris, Holland, and Derail Green. Was Bowles in that class? You can't lose an entire recruiting class and maintain elite status. The So class is looking like another bust. I still think the So's will get it together, but it's disturbing to see their progress going in reverse.

Losing an entire recruiting class and having the next one look like they have no clue what they should be doing on the court is not a good sign.

Marshall is in his learning curve on recruiting and coaching at the level he's risen to. There will be setbacks. Marshall is as responsible for the setbacks as he is for the successes. He can't control injuries, but he has to know they're going to happen and backup personnel need to be in place.

If Marshall was making MVC wages, the current situation wouldn't be so bad. Marshall is making $3M+ a year. Name one other coach making that kind of $$ who wouldn't be on the hot seat if they started a year the way the Shox started this year.

I'm not suggesting that Marshall be on the hot seat. I'd expect someone like Lusk at MSU, who makes $300K, to have an entirely useless recruiting class (Morris, Holland, Green) and another that looked lost in their second year (Kelly, Brown, Nurger).

We better hope the Fr class becomes something absolutely special. When Turgeon had recruiting problems, he left. If Marshall is ever going to leave, an empty Sr class and an underperforming Jr class would be the most likely time to leave.

I'm not going to waste time on a point by point rebuttal that others have already made, but I do want to address the ridiculous "hot seat" question.

Seriously? What sports universe do you inhabit where coaches who succeed at the level 3G has for the last five years lose 3 games - regardless of injuries and freshmen playing a predominant role - and are suddenly on the hot seat?

I consider what 3G has done in the last 5 years, pound for pound given conference and resources etc., to exceed what Les Miles has done in that time frame in a sport where a 3 game losing streak is WAY more significant.

Turn on your TV and see how that turned out - those boosters/fans are being ridiculed.

As they should be.

[shockmonster]

Don't mess with Aargh. He played in a pick up game with Ron Mendell. :)

[asiseeit]

It's going to be a long road back. If FVV returns close to 100% and stays that way that's
one BIG step. I see RB moving to the three spot and CF starting at the two spot. EW at
the four with MM subbing at both 3/4. Center by committee until someone demonstrates
they want / deserve it. We are going to be a perimeter minded team offensively but will
have the shooters to do well at it. Going to be interesting and entertaining.

[ShockdaWorld]

It's going to be a long road back. If FVV returns close to 100% and stays that way that's
one BIG step. I see RB moving to the three spot and CF starting at the two spot. EW at
the four with MM subbing at both 3/4. Center by committee until someone demonstrates
they want / deserve it. We are going to be a perimeter minded team offensively but will
have the shooters to do well at it. Going to be interesting and entertaining.

No Eric Hamilton in your rotation? Or are you thinking of him as part of the center by committee?

[asiseeit]

I see EH and RK battling for time at the four but, yes, I see him as part of the five committee.
Several players seeing duel roles. CF time at 1/2, RB time at 2/3, EH 4/5, RN 4/5, ZB 2/3
and MM at 3/4.

[NickG01]

We're paying Marshall $3mill+. SiU is paying Barry something like $80K. Marshall should be out performing Barry 5 games into the season.

We're paying elite wages and we're getting "MVC wages" results.

I guess I'm still an a-hole for my previous "there's some recruiting holes" posts. Did no one else see that we didn't have a Jr class or a backup PG?

[QUOTE=Aargh;604013]We're paying Marshall $3mill+. SiU is paying Barry something like $80K. Marshall should be out performing Barry 5 games into the season. &lt;br&gt;<br>
&lt;br&gt;<br>


I agree, when you're paying that kind of money to a coach you expect to at least make an effort to try and recruit blue chip players. When the number 1 high school player in the country Josh Jackson was playing here at the tournament here at Hartman, he told KWCH news he liked Wichita State, but no one has ever made an attempt to talk to him. Now maybe there was some NCAA rule that kept that from happening, but the news clip shows Bill Self at the game watching and licking his chops, Marshall was no where to be found, but Kyle Lindstead was there I guess in his place. What I'm saying people is this, we should be using our success to make an effort to try and recruit top 100 players, or start looking at some of the Juco elite to bring on board. Bobby Knight used a lot of Juco players and had success with it. Wichita State has to make an effort to go after blue chip players while our program is doing well to continue keeping us a national powerhouse. We got a good preseason non conference schedule this year, we can't afford to lose anymore games or we can forget about getting some of those teams to play us again or any good basketball conference schools to play us. We can't depend on Sunrise Academy to be our only source of players. And for those of you who say it's only five games, well five games can make you or break you when it comes to tournament time if you had a poor showing on your non conference schedule. We can't afford to lose anymore non conference games. And any of you who want to say I'm being negative, think what you want, I'm being a realist! I'm hoping this was a wake up call to the team. I hope Marshall lets them rest up a day or two before St Louis, especially Ron Baker. This team has looked completely out of sync since Tulsa, I was at that game and we got manhandled. Maybe it's the adjustment to the 30 second clock. It seems like they are having some problems executing their plays in that amount of time. I do know we are going to have to start driving into the lane and creating foul trouble for the opponents if we want to win. I haven't seen much of this at all this year so far. We can't win on perimeter shooting alone. There are some players that need to step up and draw those fouls underneath the basket instead of kicking it back out. I don't mean just the underclassmen, I don't see the aggressiveness in Van Fleet that we saw his first two years when he would drive the lane and draw the foul. He's never been the same since he took that hard knock and got laid out on the floor from Kentucky in the NCAA regional's two years ago in St. Louis. And to the people who will criticize me for my post...I could care less, I'm just calling as I see it. I guess we can agree to disagree. I do want the Shocks to do well this year and have another tournament run, that we can all agree on.

[pinstripers]

Hmmmm, well, we didn't get much outa Fred today............

[SHOXAAC]

I dont have words for a response. I just hope he took a breath during his rant.

[ShockerPrez]

There was one?

[shockerfanmas]

[QUOTE=NickG01;604507]

We're paying Marshall $3mill+. SiU is paying Barry something like $80K. Marshall should be out performing Barry 5 games into the season. <br><br>
<br><br>


I agree, when you're paying that kind of money to a coach you expect to at least make an effort to try and recruit blue chip players. When the number 1 high school player in the country Josh Jackson was playing here at the tournament here at Hartman, he told KWCH news he liked Wichita State, but no one has ever made an attempt to talk to him. Now maybe there was some NCAA rule that kept that from happening, but the news clip shows Bill Self at the game watching and licking his chops, Marshall was no where to be found, but Kyle Lindstead was there I guess in his place. What I'm saying people is this, we should be using our success to make an effort to try and recruit top 100 players, or start looking at some of the Juco elite to bring on board. Bobby Knight used a lot of Juco players and had success with it. Wichita State has to make an effort to go after blue chip players while our program is doing well to continue keeping us a national powerhouse. We got a good preseason non conference schedule this year, we can't afford to lose anymore games or we can forget about getting some of those teams to play us again or any good basketball conference schools to play us. We can't depend on Sunrise Academy to be our only source of players. And for those of you who say it's only five games, well five games can make you or break you when it comes to tournament time if you had a poor showing on your non conference schedule. We can't afford to lose anymore non conference games. And any of you who want to say I'm being negative, think what you want, I'm being a realist! I'm hoping this was a wake up call to the team. I hope Marshall lets them rest up a day or two before St Louis, especially Ron Baker. This team has looked completely out of sync since Tulsa, I was at that game and we got manhandled. Maybe it's the adjustment to the 30 second clock. It seems like they are having some problems executing their plays in that amount of time. I do know we are going to have to start driving into the lane and creating foul trouble for the opponents if we want to win. I haven't seen much of this at all this year so far. We can't win on perimeter shooting alone. There are some players that need to step up and draw those fouls underneath the basket instead of kicking it back out. I don't mean just the underclassmen, I don't see the aggressiveness in Van Fleet that we saw his first two years when he would drive the lane and draw the foul. He's never been the same since he took that hard knock and got laid out on the floor from Kentucky in the NCAA regional's two years ago in St. Louis. And to the people who will criticize me for my post...I could care less, I'm just calling as I see it. I guess we can agree to disagree. I do want the Shocks to do well this year and have another tournament run, that we can all agree on.

2 comments.. #1, take a breath big fella! Paragraphs would have been very helpful and made it much easier to read.

#2, and I've already mentioned this in the recruiting thread... Josh Jackson to Wichita State would be a huge mistake, and I hope HCGM doesn't even entertain the thought. If you were really there at Hartman Arena, then you had to have seen the same stuff I did. A cocky, immature, primadonna diva with an attitude from hell. Had I been officiating either of the games he played in that weekend, his ass woulda been tossed with a quickness. No frikkin way do I want him in a Shocker uniform. Not to mention, he's really not that good. We have better players at WSU already, and can find much better recruits with much better attitudes.

Oh, and FYI, It's Van Vleet, not Van Fleet. You're welcome

[jdshock]

So far, it's 2 AA guards that have made Marshall what he is. Losing just one of those AA guards has left the Shox as a rather mediocre team.

I guess you're right. HCGM has only had success because of Ron and Fred. Guys like Cle, Hall, Cotton, Armstead, Ragland, Toure, Stutz, etc., were all (A) Busts and (B) Were just as good on day one their first year as they ended up being in the last game of the season. Aside from Ron and Fred, we're #10 in the the MVC for the last eight years.

[ShockerFever]

I guess you're right. HCGM has only had success because of Ron and Fred. Guys like Cle, Hall, Cotton, Armstead, Ragland, Toure, Stutz, etc., were all (A) Busts and (B) Were just as good on day one their first year as they ended up being in the last game of the season. Aside from Ron and Fred, we're #10 in the the MVC for the last eight years.

Aargh is really having a tough time right now with all of the BS he has spewed. He has no answer for any of the stuff you just pointed out.

Congrats on the owning session.

[WstateU]

Nm

[proshox]

Aargh is the best troll ever. He ignores all significant facts to make his argument. Such a sad man.

[moshock]

3G has earned every damn dime he is getting paid. He's brought - and will continue to bring - a huge amount of success to WSU and the city of Wichita.

If Paul Lusk is worth $300 k - heck if Paul Lusk is even getting paid at all to coach MSU - 3G is worth way more than $3.3

I can pretty much guarantee that no one is suffering more angst than 3G is right now.

3G is bringing a level of recruit in here that we haven't seen since the early 80's. I can't believe anyone is complaining about our FRESHMEN.