Coach's Show

[shockmonster]

Jocoshock. I will only address one part of your statement because Gregg is taking care of the redshirt. Gregg's comment was we don't need another two, we have plenty of them. He never said he was a scoring point guard. Go back and listen.

[shoxlax]

@tempshock: I agree with most everything you say.
One thing to keep in mind is, however, HCGM's demand that his point guards know the sets, the quick hitters, when to start motion and more importantly the spots on the floor where teammates should get the ball.
Also the gap defense- a lot of it is communication to stop the dribble lanes.
Even FVV took over half his first season to get used to the heavy responsibilities of being a coach PG. You also have to be mature and humble. Not slamming Ty but having mad skills and being lighting quick will often translate into HCGMs system only after familiarity and it will take almost a full year to fully evaluate him. That being said I think he will be a fantastic PG, shouldn't redshirt and will help us greatly down the stretch to save legs if he grows into the system. That's what failed Kenny Manigault and Corey Henderson and they both were very talented.

[asiseeit]

Taylor has ALL the physical aspects to be a great point guard but PG is a unique position
that requires an ON COURT understanding of the offense and quick adaptation to
changing defenses, double teams, etc The point guard's duty is to run the offense to set
up the best opportunity for the TEAM to score. From what I saw Saturday TT still has a
lot to learn in that regard and until he does he won't be better than the third or fourth
option at the position. Having said that, once he does learn the non physical mental
aspects of the game look out. As far as red shirting, I am very supportive with whatever
he decides.

[pie n eye]

I'm not anti-Frankamp. I like Frankamp. On the rare occassions when he played point at KU he did a nice job of involving the other 4 guys, and to me a PG's most important job is making the other 4 players around him better. KU's starting point guard at the time did not do a good job of that. Self is a guy who like a defender "in the other guy's shorts". He likes to crowd the ball, and he doesn't like guys allowing space. I think Conner could have been more effective had he been allowed to step back off the ball, but that was not Bill Self's way.

What Conner does lack is Taylor's quickness, and that's an important asset for a PG in today's college game. It's all about getting in the lane and breaking down the defense.

I think someone could make the case that Fred lacks the quickness of both Frankamp and Taylor.

To me defense is more about desire, positioning, and knowing the scouting report than sheer athleticism. Of course athleticism helps a ton but the best defenders aren't always the most athletic. Again, not saying that Taylor isn't a good defender just that Frankamp, an underrated athlete himself, has all the tools to be at least an adequate defender. One thing is certain, Coach won't play him or Taylor much if they can't hold their own on that end of the court.

I don't want to come off as anti Taylor because I'm not. I also haven't seen him play as much as you so you know more about his game. Like others have said, he reminds me of a more explosive Joe Ragland. Those dribble pull ups off the screen were sweet. He's long, athletic, has handles and can shoot. What's not to like?

I'll probably be laughed at for saying this but Frankamp reminds me of a Steph Curry lite. Unlimited range (especially good shooters off the dribble), tight handles, good vision. Few would accuse Steph of being as athletic as Russ Westbrook or Derrick Rose but he gets it done in different ways. Please don't anybody take that to mean that Frankamp is going to the NBA (I also won't rule it out, though).

I've said it before but I don't see Frankamp as a SG who is converting to PG. I think he's always been more of a PG. I remember the first time I saw him play I was surprised that he had the ball in his hands the majority of time. He ran the offense more often than not and was counted on to create shots for himself and his teammates and, from what I saw, was able to do both very well. I didn't see every game he played at KU but I thought he was miscast as a spot up 3 point shooter a la Conor Teahan.

Again, this is all just my .02, I could be completely FoS.

[pie n eye]

@tempshock: That's what failed Kenny Manigault and Corey Henderson and they both were very talented.

I mean no offense to you or either of those players but I don't think either of those guys are anywhere close to the same league as Taylor.

[asiseeit]

I'd like to add just one more thing regarding Taylor that remains to be seen. Above all,
a great PG has to take care of the basketball and handle presses. As time goes by I
will be measuring him a great deal by his assist to turnover numbers and ability to handle
the press.

[jocoshock]

Jocoshock. I will only address one part of your statement because Gregg is taking care of the redshirt. Gregg's comment was we don't need another two, we have plenty of them. He never said he was a scoring point guard. Go back and listen.

I did. My interpretation stands. HCGM referred to TT's mental approach as a scoring guard first as opposed to Fred's approach to the position. If you are going to play pg at WSU, it is going to be Fred Style, pass first. That is what he needs to do. That is what coach wants.

It is well documented in articles in TT's recruiting thread that he made the transition to pg before going to Hargrave. Obviously, HCGM considers that transition to be incomplete and a work in progress by WSU standards. All the more reason to get PT this year while Fred is here (in my opinion).

[tempshock]

Point guard

I agree with comments several of you have made. WSU's offense is definitely complex, and takes time to learn. That will be a weakness of any true freshman in this system, and especially a freshman PG. I also agree with the comment that Taylor will likely be at best the third option at point (the poster noted third or fourth, and that's a reasonable assumption to be making as well). With FVV and Baker being the first two options, I just think we'll likely see Taylor as the third option. Otherwise, he likely would be getting redshirted.

I also think Frankamp is going to be a great player for WSU. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him the leading scorer next year, and he's likely to play more minutes than Taylor and score more points than him this year as well. I just think most of his scoring will come playing off the ball this year. That said, I do recognize that he can score off the dribble. I especially like his little cross over / step back move. He's really good at getting people off balance with that. That's nearly impossible to guard unless the defender is much taller.

I actually thought Frankamp should get more minutes at the point for KU. At the time Nadir Tharpe was starting at the point and was pretty clueless. So my earlier comments shouldn't be taken as a knock on Frankamp, as much as it was intended to point out that many people on here are sleeping on Taylor. People tend to sleep on guys who don't come in highly ranked, when the reality is that sometimes the rating agencies just get it wrong. Having a coaching staff who can spot talent, and not just rely on the services is really important, and it's why WSU has been so successful in recent years.

On the topic of red shirting, I think WSU fans also need to start considering one other factor in how the coaches decide who to redshirt. Given the type of players now coming into the program, the coaches may not see some of these guys as likely 4 year players. It makes no sense to redshirt someone if you think there's a chance they may be NBA ready in 2 or 3 years. That could be factoring in as well.

[Aargh]

Shamet and Taylor are going to give Frankamp serious competition for PT. Shamet is going to be firmly entrenched in the rotation when Frankamp becomes eligible.

In a little over a year or maybe a year and a half, we'll start to see this whole thing work itself out.

Criticizing Taylor for not knowing how to run the offense at this point in time is just asinine. Some national media are calling FVV the smartest player in college basketball. It took Fred nearly an entire year to learn how to play PG for Marshall. Early on, FVV did nothing other than the absolute safest and most conservative method of playing point.

[shoxlax]

I mean no offense to you or either of those players but I don't think either of those guys are anywhere close to the same league as Taylor.

Agree, but not "fitting in with the system" was the point I was trying to make

[Jhook89]

Coach said on the show last night that his rotation will probably be 9-10 guys. He said 8 is cutting it thin and it's really hard to get to the 11th guy. So let's say there are 10 spots open in the rotation. Let's take out the guys who are locks to be 1 of the 10. In quotations is the positions they can play:
Vanvleet (1)
Baker (1-3)
Wessel (2-4)
Grady (4-5)
Morris (4-5)
Frankamp (1-2)
Brown (2-4)
Kelly (4)
Wamakota (5)

Thats 9 guys right there that are pretty set as far as the rotation goes. That leaves 1 spot in the rotation for McDuffie, Shamet, Hamilton and Taylor to fight it out for.

Of the 9 guys who are locks here is how many can play each position:
1 (3)
2 (4)
3 (3)
4 (5)
5 (3)

Pretty even. Since there are already 5 guys who can play the 4 I'd say Hamilton will have a hard time cracking the rotation.

My guess for the 10th man in the rotation is Shamet. Coach seems to be extremely high on him and his opinion is the only one that matters.

[Steeleshocker]

I'm not sure BWam is guaranteed to be in the 10. I'd almost rather have Morris and Grady hold down the 5 to make room for McDuffie.

[Ol skool]

Coach said on the show last night that his rotation will probably be 9-10 guys. He said 8 is cutting it thin and it's really hard to get to the 11th guy. So let's say there are 10 spots open in the rotation. Let's take out the guys who are locks to be 1 of the 10. In quotations is the positions they can play:
Vanvleet (1)
Baker (1-3)
Wessel (2-4)


Grady (4-5)
Morris (4-5)
Frankamp (1-2)
Brown (2-4)
Kelly (4)
Wamakota (5)

Thats 9 guys right there that are pretty set as far as the rotation goes. That leaves 1 spot in the rotation for McDuffie, Shamet, Hamilton and Taylor to fight it out for.



Of the 9 guys who are locks here is how many can play each position:
1 (3)
2 (4)

3 (3)
4 (5)
5 (3)

Pretty even. Since there are already 5 guys who can play the 4 I'd say Hamilton will have a hard time cracking the rotation.

My guess for the 10th man in the rotation is Shamet. Coach seems to be extremely high on him and his opinion is the only one that matters.

Pretty Logical conclusion I think. And if mcduffie Taylor and Hamilton redshirt. Well dang!

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

With the rule changes, this year might be easier than most to get to the 11th guy.

[Dave Stalwart]

I'm not sure BWam is guaranteed to be in the 10. I'd almost rather have Morris and Grady hold down the 5 to make room for McDuffie.

I agree. He did good things at the end of last year, but he didn't do things another guy couldn't already be better at. Wamukota does have size and he does have experience, but I'm not sure he is a lock to get minutes either.

A guy like Hamilton might be a lot better than Wamukota after he learns how to play... And it's not like Bush Dubya is some kind of phenom to beat out. It won't take much. Just some solid defense and rebounding. If a guy can pull that off and bring a little more general basketball savvy to the table to boot, Bush may be seeing very limited minutes.

I'm still a believer that Bush will be effective this year, but I wouldn't make any bets on it either. That's a guy that could REALLY use a shirt for his own sake now that we've got Grady but it just doesn't make much sense.

I think Bush is going to be that 11th man Marshall was referring to who is tough to find minutes for. He will be a huge help in the battle games that have foul trouble (when we really need that 11th man with an edge) and he'll be the reason we win them, but he probably won't have any notable stats or minutes this year either just like last year.