"The Shockers are may favorite team"

[another shocker]

78-65

[The 'hut]

I just love sporting my shocker gear and meeting someone wearing another certain in state university gear. I swear they avoid eye contact. Makes me grin from ear to ear.

[wufan]

78-65

I was talking about national perception as a program, not recent head-to-head history. We aren't in the same ballpark as KU, UK, Duke, Indiana, UNC, or UCLA. Could we beat all 6 of those teams next year? Damn right! As a program, are we on equal footing? No. As was said above, we need a national championships to be considered similar to Arizona and Maryland. At least one more to be on the same level as the others.

In the last 50 years, 7 teams have won 32 National Championships.

UCLA 9
Duke 5
UConn 4
Kentucky 4
UNC 4
Indiana 3
Louisville 3

[ShockerPrez]

I used to live in Denver for about 10 years until 3 years ago. Most people there are Broncos fans, bandwagon at that. If you think Denverites are weird, check CO Springs - my goodness.

Live in Dallas now, get the occasional car horn from peeps that drive by & see Wu on my back window. I also have a really sick Shox bucket hat that I wear everyday now that it's so freaking hot here that I get a lot of compliments on. A lot of peeps here are hopping on SMU & that's cool, I like that they're doing good - people are more friendly when their teams are winning for some reason.

Pot legalization has almost ruined CO/Manitou Springs for me. I like the outdoor activities, but the city areas are just becoming full of pot stores and losers.

[SirShoxAlot]

Haha.. To be fair, though, I'd bet if you took the legal pot away, he'd just have some other excuse to be lazy.

Maybe he prefers happiness over money. But who would want that? Crazy.

[shockmonster]

Maybe he prefers happiness over money. But who would want that? Crazy.

Go ahead and put your head in the sand.

Truth is that our media does a great job of advertising the benefits of marijuana (although it is now believed that THC isn't the beneficial part of medical marijuana) but does a poor job of recognizing the dangers to the developing brain which is well documented by now. Latest studies show that the brain continues to develop until at least the age of 25.

CBD is the ingredient that cures most of the medical ailments. However, THC is what most people want.

[ShockerFever]

Maybe he prefers happiness over money. But who would want that? Crazy.

If everybody had that ideology, you could imagine how much work would be getting done in this country. I'm sure it'd be one happy little place though.

[Rlh04d]

hmm.. lets see.. 'shockers took louisville to the wire in the final four (classic game), kentucky toe-to-toe (one of the greatest ncaa games ever, literally, nfl playoff game vibe) and drubbed ku (11 straight big 12 titles) in a laugher, in order. and you don't think the shockers are right there with them? as of today?

In quality of team? Yes.

In national perception, which is what you were responding to? No. Not by miles.

Perception takes a HELL of a long time to change. National perception regarding programs doesn't change just because you have the better team for a few years. The Lakers' national perception is miles beyond the Warriors, even though the Lakers have been trash for several years now.

We could drub Kansas by double digits once a year for the next ten years straight and Kansas would still have a greater national perception than us.

[shoxtop]

In quality of team? Yes.

In national perception, which is what you were responding to? No. Not by miles.

Perception takes a HELL of a long time to change. National perception regarding programs doesn't change just because you have the better team for a few years. The Lakers' national perception is miles beyond the Warriors, even though the Lakers have been trash for several years now.

We could drub Kansas by double digits once a year for the next ten years straight and Kansas would still have a greater national perception than us.

I must ask how you are defining national and perception. Are you defining national as the 'college bball is my favorite sport' fan? The casual cbb fan? The casual sports in general fan or everyone including the admin. Asst. that wins the bracket pool every year by picking teams based on color combinations? As far as perception, are you talking perceived talent/ability this next year? Last year? The next 5 years? Or perceived greatest accomplishments in the past? Are you asking who people would pick in a head to head game based on nothing but the names on the jersey?

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying wsu is in the top 5 of too many of those possible combinations, but I would venture to say they are above ucla and Indiana in most of them. Not sure how many people under 40 in this country see Indiana and ucla as power houses right now.

[Ta Town Shocker]

Thanks to Boeing, a lot of WSU alumni are heading down to OKC. As I meet more of my fellow coworkers there, they ask me where I'm from or see my WSU polo and they say "Man, EVERYONE is from WSU..." I'll also get the occasional "Hey! Shockers!" as I walk around my apartment complex wearing a WSU T-shirt. I almost feel right at home!

I took a day trip to OKC yesterday and noticed a few OSU players at the Outlet Shoppes and I'm sure they saw my WSU shirt. At the Cheesecake factory a guy was leaving and said Go Shockers! when I walked by.

[FlyingWheat]

I must ask how you are defining national and perception. Are you defining national as the 'college bball is my favorite sport' fan? The casual cbb fan? The casual sports in general fan or everyone including the admin. Asst. that wins the bracket pool every year by picking teams based on color combinations? As far as perception, are you talking perceived talent/ability this next year? Last year? The next 5 years? Or perceived greatest accomplishments in the past? Are you asking who people would pick in a head to head game based on nothing but the names on the jersey?

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying wsu is in the top 5 of too many of those possible combinations, but I would venture to say they are above ucla and Indiana in most of them. Not sure how many people under 40 in this country see Indiana and ucla as power houses right now.

I agree that there is a difference in national perception. Of course there is no national perception that we have a better program and history than, say, UK. On the other hand, I think we're a fun program for other teams to root for. How many were pulling for Butler to beat Duke, VCU to beat KU? We're that team. We're the underdog that can hold our own against the p5. No amount of money can buy our coach. So many other schools dream of being us and for all the underdogs across the country we must be very easy to root for. The outsider that refuses to go away, that demands that the establishment stop and take notice. Yes, it is good to be a Shocker! And because of this thread, I'm particularly excited to take some Shocker gear with me on vacation.

[ShockTalk]

I'll put my 2 cents in. First, you cannot look at it as a fan of the Shockers, but as a college basketball fan.

Next is the time period involved. In any given year, there are a lot of high quality teams that could beat each other on a given day. Do I think WSU is a top 5 team, right now? Probably not. Top 10? Could be. Top 20? Sure. But, using one or two years doesn't make a team "elilte" or the perception of a top basketball power. It's been 2 years since our F4, so let's use a short term of 5 years which would include 2 years after and 2 years before the F4 year. For "national perception", the best measure is probably a national stage, the Dance.

I'd say, just based on those Final 4s, there are 8 teams that have a better national "perception" than WSU. UConn won 2 National Championships, Kentucky played in 4 of those F4s, winning one and a runner up in another, Duke won a NC (also a NC the year before these 5 years), Louisville won a NC and played in another F4, Butler was a runner up (also a runner up the year before these 5), Wisconsin a runner-up and played in another F4, Michigan and Kansas were runner-ups. Then you look at the rest of the field. Michigan St., Ohio St., Florida, Syracuse, and VCU. Even though those teams did nothing more on the big stage than WSU, 4 of them are probably nationally perceived as bigger college basketball powers than WSU. That's where quality longevity comes in.

I threw together a list of non-power conference teams and compared them both long term (since the beginning of the 60's) and short term (the last ten seasons). I looked at NCAA appearances, S16s, E8s, F4a, runner-ups, and NCs. I didn't use R32 because of potential seeding problems and it wasn't that big of deal (it's my study). I gave 1 point for an appearance, 2 points for a S16, 3 points for an E8, 4 points for an F4, 5 for runner-up, and 7 for NC. If the a team did any of this in the last 10 years, they got bonus points of 1/2 for an appearance, 1 for S16, 2 for E8, 3 for F4, and I gave nothing extra for recent runner-up or NC (neither of which would have hurt WSU, but could others). The schools: WSU, Butler, BYU, Dayton, Gonzaga, Memphis (no credit for vacated appearances or finish), UNLV, VCU, and Xavier.

Long term only: UNLV 78 points, Memphis 51, Butler 47, Dayton 45, Xavier 45, WSU 44, Gonzaga 36, BYU 35, and VCU 23.

Short term only: Butler 20 points, Gonzaga 18.5, Xavier 17.5, Memphis 12, WSU 10.5, VCU 10.5, BYU 6.5, Dayton 6, and UNLV 5.

Combined time: UNLV 83 points, Butler 67, Memphis 63, Xavier 62.5, WSU 54.5. Gonzaga 54.5, Dayton 51, BYU 41.5, and VCU 33.5.

Now, you can say that UNLV hasn't done much lately, but what they have done in the past is still getting them high profile recruits.

Is there anything that WSU is doing that should set them apart from Butler, Memphis, or Xavier? We're just talking non-power conferences here. Most of what WSU has done is over the last 3 years, but I do not believe, on a national perception level, that is long enough for the Shockers to be considered a basketball power or elite. That doesn't mean they're any less likely to win a NC, be the runner-up, or make the F4 this year than anyone else. It will just take longer than 3 years of performance to get the kind of national respect some here are looking for.

[Rlh04d]

I must ask how you are defining national and perception. Are you defining national as the 'college bball is my favorite sport' fan? The casual cbb fan? The casual sports in general fan or everyone including the admin. Asst. that wins the bracket pool every year by picking teams based on color combinations? As far as perception, are you talking perceived talent/ability this next year? Last year? The next 5 years? Or perceived greatest accomplishments in the past? Are you asking who people would pick in a head to head game based on nothing but the names on the jersey?

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying wsu is in the top 5 of too many of those possible combinations, but I would venture to say they are above ucla and Indiana in most of them. Not sure how many people under 40 in this country see Indiana and ucla as power houses right now.

You can define it in any way you want. In literally every possible definition of "national perception" we're miles behind Kansas, Kentucky, and Louisville. Even debating that is laughable. And the only group we'd be ahead of UCLA and Indiana with are fans that have been only been watching basketball for five years.

This isn't an insult at WSU. We are not comparable to basketball royalty in national perception. This conversation going on this long is making me seriously worry about the sanity of this forum. Beat them? Sure, I'd give us even odds just about every year. National perception? Not a chance in hell.

[SirShoxAlot]

Go ahead and put your head in the sand.

Truth is that our media does a great job of advertising the benefits of marijuana (although it is now believed that THC isn't the beneficial part of medical marijuana) but does a poor job of recognizing the dangers to the developing brain which is well documented by now. Latest studies show that the brain continues to develop until at least the age of 25.

CBD is the ingredient that cures most of the medical ailments. However, THC is what most people want.

It's not about that, it's about sovereignty. I think an adult individual should have the freedom to make that choice for themselves. That's my last piece as it seems neither of us will be swayed (also, this is a basketball forum lol). I respect your opinion sir, and peacefully let you go about your life. I'll go back to letting the government tell me how to live mine :)

I kid, I kid!

[shockmonster]

It's not about that, it's about sovereignty. I think an adult individual should have the freedom to make that choice for themselves. That's my last piece as it seems neither of us will be swayed (also, this is a basketball forum lol). I respect your opinion sir, and peacefully let you go about your life. I'll go back to letting the government tell me how to live mine :)

This is off the subject but I'm going to answer SSA.
I would not dream of trying to sway your opinion. After all, you are an intelligent 17,18, or maybe 19 year old adult. Here are some facts to mull over as a young libertarian. As you can see, the Constitution gives as much weight to providing for domestic order, general welfare, etc. as it gives to securing liberty for our citizenry.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insuredomestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Here are some other facts:
1. On the average, the human brain does not fully develop until 25 years old.
2. Many experts on child development also categorize child adolescence as 12-27 years.
3. Studies in marijuana use for young adults/teens who use marijuana once a week, IQ scores have dropped as much as 8 points. Example: For a score of 90(considered average intelligence)with a drop to 82 which is a "slow learner" who can still learn but needs remedial help.
Conclusion: Current evidence shows that teens/young adults are at risk when they use modern day marijuana. While I wish that Colorado could guarantee that only adults that are not at risk would be able to use but reports from Colorado also seem to show that the attitudes that marijuana is harmless is increasing it's use with younger teens.