WSU vs. InSU - Post game discussion

[shockall]

Perhaps were have not been told the "whole" story, but are reacting to what we've heard from our side alone. Perhaps GM said something else to the officials that has not been aired. There's usually two sides to every story, and unfortunately, we have not been told the "other" side. I am in no way sticking up for the officials of that game, but there must have been something very negative that caused such a reaction by the referees,...not just saying "foul" or waving his arms....!

[rrshock]

The few minutes of the SIU game that I watched last night, I could have sworn that Lowry was out in the middle of the court screaming at the officials after they called a charge on Falker. How does that not warrant a technical?

Smithson swore up and down that the refs doing the mvc games had it out for WSU. Turgeon tried and tried and tried to get it back to the way it should, but couldn't (granted Jamar Howard didn't help his case much). Now Marshall is having the same kinds of problems. But when you watch other MVC contests that don't involve the shockers, the games do seem to be called differently. Why is this, and why has the conference not done something about it?

[The Mad Hatter]

Perhaps were have not been told the "whole" story, but are reacting to what we've heard from our side alone. Perhaps GM said something else to the officials that has not been aired. There's usually two sides to every story, and unfortunately, we have not been told the "other" side. I am in no way sticking up for the officials of that game, but there must have been something very negative that caused such a reaction by the referees,...not just saying "foul" or waving his arms....!

I am more than willing to concede that more than Marshall said happened. Nonetheless, are you really suggesting that his behavior was so much worse than other coaches that he merited being the first coach ever ejected from an MVC tourney game?

As many have said, we know for a fact that Altman, Lowery and others have screamed, gestured, and run on to the court without one technical being assessed, much less two.

I have no problem with Marshall being ejected if he broke a clear standard, but if no one else is being held to the same set of rules, or anything close, then it is unjust.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I, for one, am glad to see Marshall stand up to the officials. I know he is new to the league, but we got hosed badly on calls all year and he kept his mouth shut. He asked for his team to toughen up, and he showed he wasn't going to back down either. Then he gets hosed on a second T, and that one will be discussed in the League Office.

[Rosewood]

Perhaps were have not been told the "whole" story, but are reacting to what we've heard from our side alone. Perhaps GM said something else to the officials that has not been aired. There's usually two sides to every story, and unfortunately, we have not been told the "other" side. I am in no way sticking up for the officials of that game, but there must have been something very negative that caused such a reaction by the referees,...not just saying "foul" or waving his arms....!

Why would HCGM lie?

[forevershockerfan]

WSU had a tough Season where we lost around 11 of our 20 games by about 5 points or less. Most games, we could look inward and see areas that needed to be addressed and improved. It was just one of those tough years! It would be easy to blame officials for what happened all year, but usually, the best team that day will win the game. Officiating can be a thankless and difficult job and after trying it once and doing awful, I avoid it. On the other hand, fans pay big money to travel and watch their respective team or teams play. All we can ask of refs is to do their best and call fairly what they have seen and learned and not let their emotions or tempers take over. Is this what happened in this game that was decided by 4 points? Did the best team win on the floor, or did the ref or refs determine the outcome with their whistle?

With that in mind, just how many points did Ind. State glean from the 2 techinal fouls called and the ejection of HCGM? Is it now a technical foul to yell out "foul" or spin away from a ref? Wasn't 2 technicals here quite severe? Hmmmm? I have seen much much worse and no whistle was blown. Was this about revenge, proving a point, or just being too sensitive and letting your emotions lead you to blow that whistle to get in that last word? Are we missing something here? From what I have read and heard thus far, this game needs to reviewed and addressed to determine just what did happen. If it was found that these calls were not justified, then swift disciplinary action needs to be administered to the ref or refs involved. Major College Basketball deserves better.

[pinstripers]

I dunno, but wouldn't any ejection would be reviewed?

[calfan]

I believe that they made all four free throws from the two tachnicals.

I would hope the league office would do a full investigation. If not, then JS should ask for one with a full report given to him in writing!

[shockall]

Perhaps were have not been told the "whole" story, but are reacting to what we've heard from our side alone. Perhaps GM said something else to the officials that has not been aired. There's usually two sides to every story, and unfortunately, we have not been told the "other" side. I am in no way sticking up for the officials of that game, but there must have been something very negative that caused such a reaction by the referees,...not just saying "foul" or waving his arms....!

Why would HCGM lie?

Nobody said he lied....but perhaps he pulled exactly what we probably all have done, and that's not to tell the whole truth...

[60Shock]

There’s no question that Coach got hosed the other night as we have all seen other head coaches from other schools get by with much worse and not draw the T’s.

Likewise, there is no question that Shocker fans have been screaming their team has been getting screwed by the refs since we started playing basketball.

So are the refs even more incompetent that they were in past decades? Doubt it.

But that still leaves us with some basic reasons why we, if you would believe some fans, keep continuously keep getting screwed game in and game out. The most common complaints are:

1 - The refs are incompetent - Perhaps, but if it is just incompetence, then this should even out over a season or certainly over a couple of years.
2. The refs are out to get Wichita State! This is kind of hard to swallow. It makes the statement that not one, but numerous referees who ref the games we play in, year in and out, with malice, go out of their way to make calls against only us and single out our coach for minor infractions to throw out of a MVC tournament game for the first time ever.

But if you are one who accepts this as being true, then you have to answer the question - WHY?

And the only two logical answers that make any sense at all would be that the actions of our previous and present coaches and those of our boisterous fans towards the referees have brought it on. I would love to hear a referee answer how he felt about being selected to ref a game at Koch.

Personally, I believe it is hogwash. There is no conspiracy amongst the refs to screw us. We bring it upon ourselves.

[calfan]

I believe the problems with the refs on thursday were to do with the officials in that game independant of other stuff.

That's just my opinion.

[DUShock]

There is no vast conspiracy of Zebras to purge the world of Wheatshocks.

Go Shocks!!!!

[The Mad Hatter]

I think Marshall's explanation is the most logical one. He is the new guy, and the officials have a double standard with new coaches to the league compared to ones who have been around.

While it is ridiculous that a coach like Altman could get away with way more than Marshall and unfair, it is hardly unreasonable to suggest that such favoritism does exist. Ask the fans of any school other than CU how much leeway Altman gets compared to other coaches, the answer will be unanimous. It happens in a lot of conferences other than the Valley as well, but that doesn't make it any less wrong.

[Shocker Rocker]

It's amazing how we tend to gripe more about the officiating in years that the Shocks are losing (although we all know the officiating is WHY the Shocks lost so often this year).

[RoyalShock]

I think Marshall's explanation is the most logical one. He is the new guy, and the officials have a double standard with new coaches to the league compared to ones who have been around.

If I recall, didn't Marshall actually say that he heard something to that effect during a Valley coaches meeting or some other gathering?

I still don't see where his actions deserved any technicals, let alone an ejection. Even if it is true that he was warned about using profanity earlier in the game.

It seems the Big South refs were a little more forgiving than our "big time" refs.