Blueprint to Beat the Shockers

[LandStander]

Reading a post like this is like seeing a train wreck. You don’t want to look, but you can’t help it.

To paraphrase a notorious comment, “We are who we thought we were.” Going into this season there were two knowns: We knew it would be the big three that would carry us and our inside game would be suspect. However, who we are is pretty DAMN good. In 32 games we’ve lost 4. Of those four losses, two of those losses happened over 20 games ago. In the other two losses, one was avenged 4 weeks later by 14 points. The last one happened after we beaten the same team twice. Where’s the blueprint??

Everyone wants to point the finger and say it was our poor inside play that made us loose. Frankly, we don’t win or lose by our interior play. We just hope they are “serviceable”. We win or lose by our perimeter play. In our loss to ISU it was their guard Devon Knight who went off on us. Offensively, how best do you beat a zone…by hitting your outside shots. We shot 22% from 3 (4 total three pointers).

Someone mentioned about ISU packing their zone in because our bigs WEREN'T scoring? What? Someone has to explain that to me, I've played and followed a lot of basketball in my time and that’s the first time I've ever heard of that tactic.

They kept the zone packed to PREVENT our bigs from scoring and our guards from penetrating. Basically, they were daring us to hit three point shots, which we just weren’t hitting. If we did, I guarantee they would have changed their game plan.

Yes, I wish Darius was 7’. That five inches would be an advantage. However, as mentioned already, finding a skilled big isn't that easy. Lest we forget, we have a 6’10” and 6’11” players who ride our pine. However, it’s not a necessity to have a “big” center to win. You just need one with a “big” heart! Look at Carl Hall. (I’m happy to argue with anyone who believes he was actually 6’8”, especially after he cut of the dreads.)

Of the other MVC bigs listed above, both Mock and Enevold had ONE good game against us. In the other game, our bigs owned them. Envold: 4 pts / 6 rbd in 30 min. Mock: 2pts / 8 rbds in 28 min Lynch was solid in all three games against us, but definitely not the a dominating force other than his blocks.

Bottom line, the blue print to beat us; hope we have an off shooting night from the perimeter.

I mentioned that ISU packed the zone tight and dared us to hit threes which we didn't. Don't know where you saw to "prevent our bigs from scoring." Don't remember reading that.

Also, I'm a hugh Chicago Bears fan and I remember Dennis Green's explosive press conference vividly! He was right though, the Cards kicked our ass in the 3rd preseason game and had our number in the regular season. But do you know who we were... A Super Bowl team! Doesn't matter that we almost lost that game or even if we did, it wouldn't have prevented us from making the playoffs and then making it to the Super Bowl.

The point is, even if a team can beat you with the perfect game plan, they found a way to win. That's what the Shox do. Find a way to win and they almost did Saturday. I wanted to leave so bad but they kept hanging on and almost pulled it out. It would have been Shox at Ill State in 2013 all over again if FVV hit that shot! We may not be a perfect team but we don't need to be.

Something else that Bears Super Bowl taught me, you need to be who you are. The Bears got to the Super Bowl with defense and a running game. How did they lose that game? By letting our mediocre QB throw it all over the place creating 3 turnovers (2 picks 1 fumble). That comes down to coaching and Gregg is one of the best coaches in the country, he'll get the boys a great game plan and stick to it. Or if it's not working come back in the 2nd half with a new plan. That's something Lovie Smith (Bears coach during the SB season) wasn't too good at. If the Shox head into the tourney and use their strengths to an advantage, they'll go a long way. Someone mentioned it in this thread too, that it'll be nice to play a team that hasn't already played us twice and knows all our sets! Too true.

[1979Shocker]

(Am I the only one, who hates the keyboard interface with ShockerNet software. If I do not type reeeeaaaalllll slow, then letters are skipped or the cursor wll move down a line.)

You probably need to turn off autocorrect. It does the same thing for me as you, but I never have turned off autocorrect. Autocorrect is built in to Windows 8. If you have Windows 7, you probably have it as an add-on to your browser.

[1979Shocker]

Totally sucks we weren't able to recruit a really good 5 man the past 2 years. What a team we have though!!! I still can't believe a good big man didn't want to sign with the Shockers seeing all the young guard talent we had in the Final Four year. Fred, Ron and Cotton would've made a skilled big-man who would've came here a freakin' STAR. Guess it just shows how hard it is to recruit a monster 5-man. Looks to be the same for next season. Oh well...we'll still be really good....but damn-it AZ Shocker wanted another Final Four type team with a chance to win the National Championship before losing all our guard talent. It just feels like this has been a once in a lifetime opportunity for Wichita St. Now they only have one more year before graduating. :(

Wasted opportunity???? Ahhhh....I can't allow myself to look at it that way. This run has brought a lot of pride for us fans and if it ends next year without another deep run in the tourney...I'll still be very pleased and proud of Wichita St. By the way....believe it or not...I've managed to turn a lot of people on to Shocker basketball out here in the Valley of the Sun!!! GO SHOCKS!!!!

When was the last time we recruited a really good 5 man that could play both offense and defense? I'm talking about a player that is 6'10" or taller.

[jrschh]

I mentioned that ISU packed the zone tight and dared us to hit threes which we didn't. Don't know where you saw to "prevent our bigs from scoring." Don't remember reading that.

I had to go back through and reread where I got that. It was from CBB Fan, "Without a post threat, teams pack the paint and dare us to shoot 3s." I've never heard of the reason to pack a zone in is because a team has no post threat. It's normally the exact opposite. Teams pack it in BECAUSE a team has a post threat (or trying to prevent penetration) and they are trying to negate it.

Regarding your point about the Bears, I think it sums it up well. Let's worry about who we are and BE who we are. Why focus on who we are not? Again, who we are is pretty DAMN good!

[ShockTalk]

While I believe "who's hot and who's not" and having more grit / determination than your opponents can play a big part in a team advancing their Dance ticket, you cannot not ignore team weaknesses either.

Yes, I'm going to use the last three years of Shocker teams as an example. There is no doubting the strength of our 3 guards. They are the same threesome that have been at those positions for the last 3 glorious years and are better now than ever. However, that's where it stops.

At the 5, Carter and Morris have not been Carter/Lufile/Coleby or Hall/Orupke/Lufile. In 2012-13, Lufile, as the 3rd option at the 5, played in 30 games, averaging 8 mpg, and played in all 5 NCAA games for a total of 19 minutes, 4 points (2-3), and 3 rebounds. Chances are our 3rd option at the 5 will not do that in the Dance and none have the shot blocking threat of Orupke. The other key to the 5 this year is not getting in foul trouble. I will be tickled pink if a 5 this year can match Hall's 27 mpg, 11 ppg, 5 rpg, and 2.5 blocks over 5 NCAA games. Carter could do it, but he'll have to stay in the games longer and be more consistent.

We have no player on the team that draws the offensive respect the Cle did, particularly in the front court. That takes a lot of pressure off everyone, guards and center. If Wessel and Kelly aren't offensive threats, they will be putting more pressure on the others. Big difference.

Bench: This year's team has 8 players with almost 10 mpg or better and those are likely the only 8 to see any meaningful time Dancing (I'd like to be wrong). Last year's team had 9 players with 12.5 mpg or more and 4 actual bigs at the 4/5, not 3 and 5 players at the 1/2/3 not 4. Morris, Kelly, Brown vs Coleby, Lufile, Wiggins, Wessel. In our F4 year, we had 10 players (not counting Wessel) with 11 mpg or more and #11 Lufile played 8.5 mpg. Yes, injuries had something to do with the minutes, but those players also played in the Dance. Often criticized Jake White (#10 in minutes) played 23 minutes over all 5 NCAA games with his best game against Gonzaga playing 9 minutes, 5 points (2-3), and 3 rebounds.

The 2012-13 and 2013-14 teams not only had threats (offensive and/or defensive) at all positions, but depth at all positions. Fred backing up Armstead with Armstead sometimes moving over to the 2; an NBA draft choice in Cle on the front line; Wessel coming off the bench playing his true position not starting as an undersized 4; true and numerous front line shot blockers in Hall, Orupke, Early, Coleby, Lufile; more 3 point threats, and multiple D-I experience coming off the bench.

This team has exceeded my expectations thus far and may very well continue to do so. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but what I won't be is otherwise disappointed. This has been another great year in Shocker basketball and I'm hoping that there's another great chapter in this year's play yet to be written. We will need to be firing on all cylinders as the margin of error is very thin.

:wsu_posters:

[AZ Shocker]

Nailed it ShockTalk. Good post sir. And...........GO SHOCKS!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dave Stalwart]

While I believe "who's hot and who's not" and having more grit / determination than your opponents can play a big part in a team advancing their Dance ticket, you cannot not ignore team weaknesses either.

Yes, I'm going to use the last three years of Shocker teams as an example. There is no doubting the strength of our 3 guards. They are the same threesome that have been at those positions for the last 3 glorious years and are better now than ever. However, that's where it stops.

At the 5, Carter and Morris have not been Carter/Lufile/Coleby or Hall/Orupke/Lufile. In 2012-13, Lufile, as the 3rd option at the 5, played in 30 games, averaging 8 mpg, and played in all 5 NCAA games for a total of 19 minutes, 4 points (2-3), and 3 rebounds. Chances are our 3rd option at the 5 will not do that in the Dance and none have the shot blocking threat of Orupke. The other key to the 5 this year is not getting in foul trouble. I will be tickled pink if a 5 this year can match Hall's 27 mpg, 11 ppg, 5 rpg, and 2.5 blocks over 5 NCAA games. Carter could do it, but he'll have to stay in the games longer and be more consistent.

We have no player on the team that draws the offensive respect the Cle did, particularly in the front court. That takes a lot of pressure off everyone, guards and center. If Wessel and Kelly aren't offensive threats, they will be putting more pressure on the others. Big difference.

Bench: This year's team has 8 players with almost 10 mpg or better and those are likely the only 8 to see any meaningful time Dancing (I'd like to be wrong). Last year's team had 9 players with 12.5 mpg or more and 4 actual bigs at the 4/5, not 3 and 5 players at the 1/2/3 not 4. Morris, Kelly, Brown vs Coleby, Lufile, Wiggins, Wessel. In our F4 year, we had 10 players (not counting Wessel) with 11 mpg or more and #11 Lufile played 8.5 mpg. Yes, injuries had something to do with the minutes, but those players also played in the Dance. Often criticized Jake White (#10 in minutes) played 23 minutes over all 5 NCAA games with his best game against Gonzaga playing 9 minutes, 5 points (2-3), and 3 rebounds.

The 2012-13 and 2013-14 teams not only had threats (offensive and/or defensive) at all positions, but depth at all positions. Fred backing up Armstead with Armstead sometimes moving over to the 2; an NBA draft choice in Cle on the front line; Wessel coming off the bench playing his true position not starting as an undersized 4; true and numerous front line shot blockers in Hall, Orupke, Early, Coleby, Lufile; more 3 point threats, and multiple D-I experience coming off the bench.

This team has exceeded my expectations thus far and may very well continue to do so. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but what I won't be is otherwise disappointed. This has been another great year in Shocker basketball and I'm hoping that there's another great chapter in this year's play yet to be written. We will need to be firing on all cylinders as the margin of error is very thin.

:wsu_posters:

Yes. I completely agree. Hilariously, though, this has been a 28-4, #12, 5ish seed, 18 RPI, conference title, REBUILDING YEAR. We do have serious weaknesses but we also had enough there to hold things together in style. I fully expect next year to look a little deeper even with the loss of Tekele. I have a good feeling about the Zach Brown, Evan Wessel tandem. I'm also feeling good about FVV, Baker and Frankamp. If we can add/cultivate some serious firepower at the forward positions, we will be strong.

[purrrrrfect]

Nailed it ShockTalk. Good post sir. And...........GO SHOCKS!!!!!!!!!!!

Bring back miller and wilson!

[AZ Shocker]

Bring back miller and wilson!

Those guys were pretty good too. Last year was our year though. CBS didn't want it...they STACKED that bracket and the "fix" was in. Bastards!!!! Lol

[Robant15]

We have no player on the team that draws the offensive respect the Cle did, particularly in the front court. That takes a lot of pressure off everyone, guards and center. If Wessel and Kelly aren't offensive threats, they will be putting more pressure on the others. Big difference.

:wsu_posters:

I miss Cle. Marcus McDuffie looks like he could potentially fill that void. Dude needs to bulk up though.

[LandStander]

I miss Cle. Marcus McDuffie looks like he could potentially fill that void. Dude needs to bulk up though.

Of course he needs to bulk up! He's grown 4 inches since this summer! If he's still growing too, it'll be awhile before anything sticks to that frame

[Slalomshocker]

I read "Darius HAS TO defend with his arms"..... I did read that right? Seriously, Darius is terrible at defense BECAUSE he uses his arms. MOVE YOUR FEET. That's why BWam was able to essentially shut down Tuttle, he moved his feet well. I will never buy the 'undersized' card... Ben Smith slowed down McDermott despite the size difference, Evan slowed down Tuttle by having good foot work. Can they get taken to the block and posted? Yes, but with good footwork and a guard digging/helping, size isn't all that matters. I'd take a 6'5" guy that knows how to move his feet and deny the post vs a 6'9" guy that doesn't move his feet and thus has to use his arms....and fouls. If size meant everything, why did WSU go to the F4 with Carl Hall, VCU go to the F4 with no bigs and I know for a fact George Mason beat some good sized teams with 6-7 Jai Lewis. Its not about size, its about position and fundamental footwork. This team will struggle with a solid big man, but if DC and SM can ever learn to play by moving their lower half instead of relying on their upper half....they would be great defenders.

A quick bit on Mock at UE. He should be averaging 20ppg. UE refuses to utilize him to the fullest because Marty is so intent on running a shooter off 500 screens every possession. Give WSU Mock and he would flourish. It worked well when the offense ran through Stutz in the post. Mock is very talented and is a good passer. Its a shame he is stuck at UE.

[Dan]

It's too late to teach DC how to defend, it is what it is. We gotta get Shaq to learn how to defend and teach BWam how to play basketball.

[pie n eye]

I read "Darius HAS TO defend with his arms"..... I did read that right? Seriously, Darius is terrible at defense BECAUSE he uses his arms. MOVE YOUR FEET. That's why BWam was able to essentially shut down Tuttle, he moved his feet well. I will never buy the 'undersized' card... Ben Smith slowed down McDermott despite the size difference, Evan slowed down Tuttle by having good foot work. Can they get taken to the block and posted? Yes, but with good footwork and a guard digging/helping, size isn't all that matters. I'd take a 6'5" guy that knows how to move his feet and deny the post vs a 6'9" guy that doesn't move his feet and thus has to use his arms....and fouls. If size meant everything, why did WSU go to the F4 with Carl Hall, VCU go to the F4 with no bigs and I know for a fact George Mason beat some good sized teams with 6-7 Jai Lewis. Its not about size, its about position and fundamental footwork. This team will struggle with a solid big man, but if DC and SM can ever learn to play by moving their lower half instead of relying on their upper half....they would be great defenders.

A quick bit on Mock at UE. He should be averaging 20ppg. UE refuses to utilize him to the fullest because Marty is so intent on running a shooter off 500 screens every possession. Give WSU Mock and he would flourish. It worked well when the offense ran through Stutz in the post. Mock is very talented and is a good passer. Its a shame he is stuck at UE.

If I could thank and like from a mobile I would but instead I will requote because I couldn't agree more.

[jdshock]

I'd take a 6'5" guy that knows how to move his feet and deny the post vs a 6'9" guy that doesn't move his feet and thus has to use his arms....and fouls. If size meant everything, why did WSU go to the F4 with Carl Hall, VCU go to the F4 with no bigs and I know for a fact George Mason beat some good sized teams with 6-7 Jai Lewis. Its not about size, its about position and fundamental footwork.

Yep. There are people on here who would turn down Ben Wallace as a 6'9" (who most think was actually 6'7") center because he's not 7' and Shawn Marion who is probably really 6'5" or 6'6" at PF. These two guys have been some of the most elite defenders and rebounders in the NBA in the last couple decades. Sure if you had Wallace's skills, athleticism, and work ethic in a 7 footer that's probably a better combination. Height means so little, though. If you find a true talent at 6'5" it's not going to prevent you from winning the whole thing.

Also, not really fair to even call Darius only 6'7". His wingspan is 7'2".