Blueprint to Beat the Shockers

[ArtVandalay]

What came first, the chicken or the egg? 1. The guards seem very hesitant to pass the ball into Darius "Black Hole" Carter for fear he'll force up a bad shot regardless of position. 2. Carter forces up bad shots because he simply never gets the ball in the low post from his guards.
We need to at least fake an inside game. Get the ball inside every trip down (or let's even start with 1 out of 3 trips down). Darius and Shaq need to realize we are not passing it inside every trip down just so they can get FG attempts. They need to see if they have a GOOD shot and then kick it out to create space. Teams still double Carter, even with his struggles and forced shots. Take the double and kick it out.

As for the zone, Ron in the middle of the free throw line is how you beat the zone. We just don't throw him the ball there. As much as I love Fred, the zone seems to puzzle him. Pass it Ron at the free throw line. He doesn't need to shoot it there, but it collapses the zone and opens space for kick out threes or dribble penetration. I remember 1 time Ron got the ball in the middle of the zone against the Redturds and we scored that possession.

[kochHead]

We lost because we couldn't hit outside shots and we didn't defend well. That aside, did anyone else wonder why we went zone at the end of the game vs a team that was hot from 3?

[ShockerExpress]

We lost because we couldn't hit outside shots and we didn't defend well. That aside, did anyone else wonder why we went zone at the end of the game vs a team that was hot from 3?

Some of this has to be bad luck, but does it not seem like literally every time we switch to zone, someone hits a three? I don't mind zone defense in general, and our man-to-man was lacking, so I was OK with the switch, but it never seems to work out.

Also, our rotations don't seem great on the zone. Someone always ends up WIDE OPEN. Happened against UK in the tourney last year, too. I always secretly cringe when we switch to it.

[kochHead]

As for the zone, Ron in the middle of the free throw line is how you beat the zone. We just don't throw him the ball there. As much as I love Fred, the zone seems to puzzle him. Pass it Ron at the free throw line.

ISU was trying to take this away, and from watching the game I didn't see many clean opportunities to get him the ball there.

[LandStander]

Since I sat in the corner I could see the spacing better than the tv view. Redbirds packed their zone tight and the passing lanes were well defended. That's why we got some open looks at the 3, just none of them went down. They dared us and we were ice cold. I even noticed it at the shoot around. 1st half our players were hitting their 3s, 2nd half not so much. Maybe fatigue was a factor. If I recall correctly, all of Rons misses were short.

[kochHead]

If I recall correctly, all of Rons misses were short.

I noticed this too. Maybe tired legs. Although, UNI and ISU seemed to be hitting their 3s just fine. Oh well, on to the real tournament.

[MTXEShox]

The ISU game was a blueprint for any team to beat the Shockers in the tournament. Play a 2-3 zone, because apparently Marshall's game plan against a team that plays a 2-3 zone is to throw the ball around the perimeter and hope somebody makes a three.

I remember one or two good plays in the 2nd half against the 2-3 zone, including the alley oop from Fred to Darius. But other than that, nothing was working.

I was at the game, and you could just feel that when ISU made 5 out of 6 shots to start the 2nd half that the momentum shifted. And when the stayed in the 2-3 zone, the time just ticked away and we could not muster much offense.

All the debate about whether the Shocks get a 5 or a 6 seed is meaningless. Regardless of the matchup, any team can watch the video of the ISU game to discover how to beat the Shockers. I'd love to hear Marshall address what the offensive scheme is against a 2-3 zone.

You are correct on this Hoops. I was at the game as well and the zone was the key to their success as it has been all year against us! If you can't make the outside shot or work the ball down under you are doomed to defeat. We'll get it done though.

[wu_shizzle]

Some of this has to be bad luck, but does it not seem like literally every time we switch to zone, someone hits a three? I don't mind zone defense in general, and our man-to-man was lacking, so I was OK with the switch, but it never seems to work out.

Also, our rotations don't seem great on the zone. Someone always ends up WIDE OPEN. Happened against UK in the tourney last year, too. I always secretly cringe when we switch to it.

Maybe we don't do well against the zone on offense because we don't practice against a good zone.

[ShockRef]

We lost because we couldn't hit outside shots and we didn't defend well. That aside, did anyone else wonder why we went zone at the end of the game vs a team that was hot from 3?

They didn't have a choice. Carter and Shaq both had 4 fouls and ISU was salivating at the prospect of kicking the ball inside and have Lynch go one on one against either. It would not have ended well.

It was better odds to have them fire away from 23' instead of 3'.

Don't even start the "what about Bush" stuff. Lynch would have scored even faster and probably got fouled in the process.

That is all.

[pie n eye]

I get frustrated with DC but have to keep reminding myself that he's being asked to play out of position, at no fault of his own (both he and Wessel). I don't understand how our staff can't find a couple 6'9" guys with some skill. I look at other rosters in our league and see those guys. I look at mediocre teams in power conferences and see those guys. How can a good frontcourt player not want to come to WSU? He would not only get immediate playing time, he would be a star. Perry Ellis would be an All American if he would've came to WSU. That kid from KS that left Duke would've been an all-american at WSU. We need some bigs and we need them bad.

Sorry but how is Perry at the 5 any less undersized than Darius?

[Dan]

Perry is more skilled. Just an example of a guy that is doing ok at a big school but would have blossomed at WSU. There's probably 100 examples.

[wusphlash]

Sorry but how is Perry at the 5 any less undersized than Darius?

Perry Ellis is undersized for a five. They have admitted that. The little advantage KU would have is a more bigs capable of helping out. Perry is best suited at a four.

[pie n eye]

Perry is more skilled. Just an example of a guy that is doing ok at a big school but would have blossomed at WSU. There's probably 100 examples.

Darius' problem isn't on offense. It's on defense. He scores at a ridiculous rate when he's on the court. Unfortunately he also fouls at a similar rate.

Personally I think people put way too much emphasis on the fact that he is "undersized". He's 6'7 with a long wingspan. If a shorter Carl Hall could bang with the big boys then based strictly on his size Darius should be better equipped. But, IMO, Darius doesn't have the same kind of defensive instincts or tenacity or toughness that Carl had. He's been on the receiving end of some piss poor officiating this year and he's let it affect his game.

[jocoshock]

Perry is more skilled. Just an example of a guy that is doing ok at a big school but would have blossomed at WSU. There's probably 100 examples.

Kyle Wilson was more skilled than Darius when he played the 5 out of position in 06-07. Didn't work out then either. It worked for Carl Hall, but he also had Garrett Stutz, Charack Lufile, and even Jake White to help out.

Darius had 6'4" Evan Wessel and Kyle had 6'4" PJ Cousinard playing at the 4. Both great players at their natural positions (3).

[jocoshock]

Darius' problem isn't on offense. It's on defense. He scores at a ridiculous rate when he's on the court. Unfortunately he also fouls at a similar rate.

Personally I think people put way too much emphasis on the fact that he is "undersized". He's 6'7 with a long wingspan. If a shorter Carl Hall could bang with the big boys then based strictly on his size Darius should be better equipped. But, IMO, Darius doesn't have the same kind of defensive instincts or tenacity or toughness that Carl had. He's been on the receiving end of some piss poor officiating this year and he's let it affect his game.

Your observations about Carl vs. DC are true, but Carl also had more support when he got into foul trouble and that support was also not under sized and playing out of position, and that compounded the problem.