Blueprint to Beat the Shockers

[Rosewood]

The ISU game was a blueprint for any team to beat the Shockers in the tournament. Play a 2-3 zone, because apparently Marshall's game plan against a team that plays a 2-3 zone is to throw the ball around the perimeter and hope somebody makes a three.

I remember one or two good plays in the 2nd half against the 2-3 zone, including the alley oop from Fred to Darius. But other than that, nothing was working.

I was at the game, and you could just feel that when ISU made 5 out of 6 shots to start the 2nd half that the momentum shifted. And when the stayed in the 2-3 zone, the time just ticked away and we could not muster much offense.

All the debate about whether the Shocks get a 5 or a 6 seed is meaningless. Regardless of the matchup, any team can watch the video of the ISU game to discover how to beat the Shockers. I'd love to hear Marshall address what the offensive scheme is against a 2-3 zone.

Doesn't have to be 2-3. GW and I'll St are good teams but not great teams. Both beat WSU with the zone. For GW it was 1-3-1 but the end idea was the same. We didn't get the ball to the freethrow line. That is the key to beating the zone and when we did - we scored.

It was so frustrating to watch and if that is how wsu loses in the tourney I will cry

[ShockTalk]

Zone, shmone... Our lack of a consistent inside scoring and front line defense is what beat us. A team with a big that plays better than our big is the recipe. It beat us at Utah, GW, UNI, and yestetday, when Lynch figured out how to play like a legit bug man, and DC let him..

If you play Wichita State with a zone. you have to pray that
Baker and VanVleet have a bad game shooting threes at the same time.

WSU only lost 4 games this year for a reason.
They rarely both have bad shooting games.

For discussion, Lynch had a pretty average offensive day stat-wise. For the season he has averaged 9.5 ppg, shooting .515 FG (last year it was .582). Yesterday he had 11 points and shot .464. Where he did come up big was with 5 blocked shots.

We are know for our guard play this year and if our bigs can keep things fairly close with the oppositions bigs, we should be OK. Yesterday: Ill St bigs 20 points, 14 total rebounds, 4 offensive; for the season, 26 points per game, 18 total rebounds pg, 6 offensive. WSU: 16 points, 10 total rebounds, 4 offensive; season, 23 points, 16 total rebounds, 5 offensive. Both teams were down about the same from their season averages, but WSU was down slightly more.

As @TheYeti: mentioned, our ball defense 1 on 1 was sketchy. Knight lit us up all over the place. 25 points (season 14), shooting .667 FG (.446), .750 3pt (.367). That's a big difference from the last meeting of 0 points and 0-8 shooting. Had hit only his averages, we win going away. The rest of their team was pretty pedestrian. 11-32 .344, 3-10 3pt .300. As for both teams, we had more rebounds (34-30), more offensive boards (15-10), more assists (14-9), fewer turnovers (9-12). Where we got hurt most was fouls and at the FT line.

Lastly, Baker has not been shooting his average % lately. Over the last 8 games, 12.3 ppg, .369 FG, .326 3pt, and .700 FT. Last 5 games, 12.2 ppg, .356 FG, .303 3pt, and .563 FT. For first 24 games, 15.9 ppg, .471 FG, .429 3pt, and .763 FT. Fred's numbers are all up during that time as well as Cotton's expect his 3pt %.

So what else has been different? In the 5 games previous to the tournament, Evan numbers were 9 ppg, .485 FG (16-33), and .400 3pt (10-25). That's almost 7 shots per game. In the tournament, 1.5 ppg, 1-4 FG, 1-3 3pt. It would seem that if Ron's shooting is a little off, we need more shots for/from Evan. Evan not shooting, Cotton not hitting from 3 4-22 last 5 games, and Ron not knocking them down as well, our guard play from the 3 rests only with Fred. For this team to be productive, we have to have better shooting from the 3 from more than Fred.

[Rosewood]

The 43 points given up in the 2nd half had nothing to do with Ill Sts zone.

That had everything to do with shaq holding post and getting phantom foul cals. And Darius and anyone else really.

[shocka khan]

Shocktalk said:
".... Evan's numbers were 9 ppg, .485 FG (16-33), and .400 3pt (10-25). That's almost 7 shots per game. In the tournament, 1.5 ppg, 1-4 FG, 1-3 3pt. It would seem that if Ron's shooting is a little off, we need more shots for/from Evan. Evan not shooting, Cotton not hitting from 3 4-22 last 5 games, and Ron not knocking them down as well, our guard play from the 3 rests only with Fred. For this team to be productive, we have to have better shooting from the 3 from more than Fred. "

I agree. I still don't like the idea of Evan playing PF, but if coach is going to play him there, the least he can also do is to run some offense through him. Evan not producing anything offensively not only makes for a huge mismatch at PF, it also makes it a 4 on 5 game.

[shockmonster]

Some are forgetting that ISUR ran the same zone when we beat them the other two times. We also defeated a good number of other teams who played zone. A blueprint should be more exact.

[Kung Wu]

I could tell when I looked at the scoreboard and the fouls were WSU 7 and ILS 1 that the momentum had changed. Can't wait to get home and look at the gmomentum changing foul on Fred's steal and negated layup at the end.

You won't like it. Bring vaseline because you're gonna get a case of the red ass.

[Rlh04d]

These threads after every loss are so predictable.

We shot poorly. We lost. We're a very good team. Shoot better and we'll probably do well. End of story.

We've always done somewhat poorly against the zone, but it's heavily dependent on our shooting. When we can hit our 3s, we win. When we don't, we lose.

[small tyme baller]

WSU has holes, just like every other team in the country ... Yesterday, those holes were again exploited. We didn't play a great game and lost, but with the right seeding, we can still do damage in the tourny. What will cure these holes?? A starting frontcourt that doesn't go 6-4 & 6-7, A bench that has another year of experience, and continued strive for excellence by our coaching staff.

On a side note... I love DC, he's a great teammate and an even better person, but he has gotten absolutely OWNED this yr against quality bigs. He's not a C and is forced into that role becuz we have no stutz, orupke, etc to be that rim protector. I feel bad for DC because if he were a starting PF in our league, his game could be truly utilized .. And he's been solid this yr, but his game could have really elevated to another level with a solid starting C.

Again, still excited to see where we end up & we can do damage in the tourny if we play anything remotely like the UNI game @ CKA

[ShockerEngineer]

Yep, sucks what happened, but it's far from the end of the world. It's still possible to make a run, unless the committee Murphy's Laws our draw and gives us a lower seeded team with a good zone defense. All in all, I'd bet there were many years where everyone wished that was our biggest problem.

Now that I don't have to give a crap about the MVC championship game, I think I can focus on other things and grill out tonight. :)

[forevershockerfan]

Lots of factors in such a close game can be cussed and discussed. The birds had quite a 2nd half as though they had the eye of the tiger mentality so they can Dance and right now they are playing in the 1st half similar to yesterdays 2nd half. We had them on the ropes in the 1st half but did not execute as well as hoped to break their spirit. In the 2nd half they shot lights out from the field and got tons and tons more throws and made most of them. Even though all these things happened, it still was down to a 1 possession game at the end. Credit Knight and Lynch for having huge games which had to happen for them to win.

Since it was such a close game at the end, here are some factors that stick out in my mind that worked against us. The way the game was called allowed Lynch to block his fair share of shots without fouling out. Some of his blocks looked good at the ball level but it appeared he fouled with his body on some of those blocks. Even so, I watched some of the Virginia and Louisville game and this also happened but I would have liked to have fouled Lynch out. The clean steal by FVV that the whistle blew was a killer call. It appeared the ref with the best look did not call it. Carter missed 2 key throws at a bad time that even 1 would have helped since we got so few opportunities. No, I won't blame this loss on the refs because the Shocks usually win when these same issues present themselves. Carter and Shaq too often get in foul trouble but this is one game we really needed them both on the floor more than their 37 minutes combined total. Baker and FVV were again our leading rebounders. Wessel had been scoring 9 points lately but only 3 this time. Even so, we had a chance to win at the buzzer. Any small improvements to any of the areas mentioned would have made a difference in such a close game. I am not blaming individuals for a team loss. Not every player has a solid game every game. These are just areas that I noticed that were collectively what it took for the birds to find a way to beat the #8 team in the Country.

What does it mean looking at the big picture. If somebody told us we would go 28-4 and win the Valley with 8 new players, we would have been happy with that. We don't lose 2 in a row this Season either and are not done winning. Can't wait to see our brackett. We did not win the Lew the Season we marched into the Final 4 so I am not worried. We have ample time to fine-tune some little things that plagued us yesterday and get prepared for getting hot as we Dance with the stars. We have a very good team that can do some damage at this here Dance.

[ShockRef]

Zone, shmone... Our lack of a consistent inside scoring and front line defense is what beat us. A team with a big that plays better than our big is the recipe. It beat us at Utah, GW, UNI, and yestetday, when Lynch figured out how to play like a legit bug man, and DC let him..

Not so sure DC was letting him. It was more of a case of a legit 4 trying to guard a legit 5, which has been the year long story.

IMO, this team without a legit 5 on the roster, has overachieved this year.
Yes, they have a Top 5 backcourt, but have been exposed every time they went against a team with a true 5 in the post. I think DC has done an admirable job, especially with no experienced relief on the bench.

That's why recruiting is ongoing, even as this message is posted.

That is all.

[pinstripers]

If we had a center, and DC coulda played the 4, he woulda been All-Valley.

[jocoshock]

Not so sure DC was letting him. It was more of a case of a legit 4 trying to guard a legit 5, which has been the year long story.

IMO, this team without a legit 5 on the roster, has overachieved this year.
Yes, they have a Top 5 backcourt, but have been exposed every time they went against a team with a true 5 in the post. I think DC has done an admirable job, especially with no experienced relief on the bench.

That's why recruiting is ongoing, even as this message is posted.

That is all.

I agree with that. DC is not a legit 5. And he had little or no help much of the year. So I will rephrase to say he could not stop Lynch.

[Slalomshocker]

My take on how to beat the Shox, since that is the topic of conversation. Be physical with them. If the refs let the game be physical, WSU is going to struggle. If they call it tight, WSU wins with relative ease. Just what I have seen all season. And ISUr was allowed to be VERY physical....the shox....eh, not so much. ISU took the game to WSU in the 2nd half, and deserved the win, but the whistles were far from even underneath, imo.

[Dan]

I get frustrated with DC but have to keep reminding myself that he's being asked to play out of position, at no fault of his own (both he and Wessel). I don't understand how our staff can't find a couple 6'9" guys with some skill. I look at other rosters in our league and see those guys. I look at mediocre teams in power conferences and see those guys. How can a good frontcourt player not want to come to WSU? He would not only get immediate playing time, he would be a star. Perry Ellis would be an All American if he would've came to WSU. That kid from KS that left Duke would've been an all-american at WSU. We need some bigs and we need them bad.