UNI the real deal?

[shockmonster]

Do you feel better tonight Hook? :)

[Shocker-maniac]

I think that the Shocks are the "real deal" now. But even if they're not, I think they will be in March.

[WSUwatcher]

...maybe I underestimated them, but they seem much better than I thought they would be.

Btw, Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to you, too. They're also better than I thought, although they have the advantage of experience, which is a considerable help. Of course, they haven't been tested yet the way the Shocks will test them.

I hope they are for real, though, because that's good news for the Valley just like it's good news for the WCC when St. Mary's gives Gonzaga a run for their money.

[Shockeriffic]

UNI is for real but they have one major problem. What happened to Deon Mitchell? He's looked terrible in every game I've watched.

[Jhook89]

Do you feel better tonight Hook? :)

Haha we played a really good game! Good to see cotton and Fvv knocking down some outside shots. It was against LMU though, so let's not get too excited lol. While kelly looks lost from time to time and makes mistakes, I think we need to start him going forward. We are going to need him come March. Anyone else find it strange that nurger had that one good game where he scored in double figures, then he has barely played?

[Dave Stalwart]

We should start a new thread titled "Redbirds, the real deal?" and see if we can inflate their egos so much that the heads of their three fans explode.

Redbirds, the RAW deal :)

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Teams currently in the top 50 in the RPI: Incarnate Word (44), Eastern Washington (40), Rhode Island (33), Buffalo (29), Green Bay (17). Any quoted statistics from the RPI at this point in the season is unreliable and doesn't really tell you much. UCLA got destroyed by Kentucky and went up 5 spots in the RPI rankings. We may have the "6th toughest schedule" according to the RPI at this point, but what is that really worth?

KenPom has WSU's current SOS at 58. I agree, the RPI is not a good tool in December.

[ripemupshocks]

KenPom has WSU's current SOS at 58. I agree, the RPI is not a good tool in December.

Well hell, there goes the non-con portion of every teams schedule. So RPI is not a good tool until WSU plays Drake. GREAT! Your premise certainly makes it easy for voters to justify putting a team like 12-1 Notre Dame from the mighty ACC into the top 25 while ignoring the fact that ND has an RPI rank of 103 , and an SOS rank of 313.

Here are some of ND,s impressive opponents thru December who's RPI's we shoudn't pay much attention to:

TEAM	RECORD	RPI
Binghamton	0-12	344
Navy	0-8	310
Coppin St.	0-11	299
Grambling St.	0-8	229
Chicago St.	0-12	339
Fairleigh Dickinson	3-6	182
Mount St. Mary's	4-6	156
Northern Illinois	3-5	274
Hartford	6-5	213

Here are some other examples of where WSU ranks in "not a good tool in December":

ESPN BPI rank - 13
Warren Nolan NPI rank - 9
Team Rankings Power rating - 16
Massey Rating - 11

I don't understand how waiting until January 1 makes the RPI any more/less credible than any other arbitrary date you may choose; other than waiting until January when conference play starts, ensures that the BCS teams that are just handed great RPI numbers prior to the start of the season do not have to worry about losses to low RPI teams in the non-con portion of their schedule having a negative impact on their RPI at the end of the season, thereby assuring their status as golden boys in the eyes of the NCAA Selection Committee. If the RPI numbers were static, I could see your argument. But they're not. The RPI numbers change with every game, even in December.

It's far to easy to say the RPI doesn't matter in December when a good non-con schedule gives WSU a good RPI number, but then say the RPI does matter in January when the MVC is dragging down WSU's RPI.

[SB Shock]

Teams currently in the top 50 in the RPI: Incarnate Word (44), Eastern Washington (40), Rhode Island (33), Buffalo (29), Green Bay (17). Any quoted statistics from the RPI at this point in the season is unreliable and doesn't really tell you much. UCLA got destroyed by Kentucky and went up 5 spots in the RPI rankings. We may have the "6th toughest schedule" according to the RPI at this point, but what is that really worth?

You might want to start going to RPIforecast for you RPI numbers. If you are looking at only the day to day numbers you will be lead astray. If you look at the RPIforecast you will see the long term affects on wins and losses and whether their "present day" rpi is an outlier, or on-track.

http://www.rpiforecast.com/index2.html

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Well hell, there goes the non-con portion of every teams schedule. So RPI is not a good tool until WSU plays Drake. GREAT! Your premise certainly makes it easy for voters to justify putting a team like 12-1 Notre Dame from the mighty ACC into the top 25 while ignoring the fact that ND has an RPI rank of 103 , and an SOS rank of 313.

Here are some of ND,s impressive opponents thru December who's RPI's we shoudn't pay much attention to:

TEAM	RECORD	RPI
Binghamton	0-12	344
Navy	0-8	310
Coppin St.	0-11	299
Grambling St.	0-8	229
Chicago St.	0-12	339
Fairleigh Dickinson	3-6	182
Mount St. Mary's	4-6	156
Northern Illinois	3-5	274
Hartford	6-5	213

Here are some other examples of where WSU ranks in "not a good tool in December":

ESPN BPI rank - 13
Warren Nolan NPI rank - 9
Team Rankings Power rating - 16
Massey Rating - 11

I don't understand how waiting until January 1 makes the RPI any more/less credible than any other arbitrary date you may choose; other than waiting until January when conference play starts, ensures that the BCS teams that are just handed great RPI numbers prior to the start of the season do not have to worry about losses to low RPI teams in the non-con portion of their schedule having a negative impact on their RPI at the end of the season, thereby assuring their status as golden boys in the eyes of the NCAA Selection Committee. If the RPI numbers were static, I could see your argument. But they're not. The RPI numbers change with every game, even in December.

It's far to easy to say the RPI doesn't matter in December when a good non-con schedule gives WSU a good RPI number, but then say the RPI does matter in January when the MVC is dragging down WSU's RPI.

I'm not really sure where to start. You seem to be arguing against a bunch of things that I did not say. I never said Notre Dame hasn't played an easy schedule. I actually agree with you there. I also agree that voters often take information and draw stupid conclusions from it. However, that is often due to stupid voters and not actually a commentary on the validity of the data.

Regarding the RPI, I never said that January 1 was a magical date.
The RPI is not the best ranking tool in December.
The RPI is not the best ranking tool in January.
The RPI is not the best ranking tool in (ever).

However, the flaws of the RPI do get better over time. My point was that early in the year (5-10) games into the season, the RPI is horrid and other tools should be used. I actually prefer other tools in March as well, but at that point in the year I will atleast admit that the RPI does generate respectable numbers... just not the best, IMO.