Upside-Down Big XII Cake For Desert

[ShockerFever]

Its always a great day when KU and Turgeon lose on the same day!

In case it wasn't already obvious.. you have issues.

[newshock1234]

Its always a great day when KU and Turgeon lose on the same day!

In case it wasn't already obvious.. you have issues.

and so do you

[ShockerFever]

Its always a great day when KU and Turgeon lose on the same day!

In case it wasn't already obvious.. you have issues.

and so do you

I guess that depends on you definition of 'issues'. My definition includes wishing for hate and disdain on another human being who helped turn a program from a perennial bottom dweller to a legitimate program on the national scene.

Pretty sad.

[newshock1234]

Its always a great day when KU and Turgeon lose on the same day!

In case it wasn't already obvious.. you have issues.

and so do you

I guess that depends on you definition of 'issues'. My definition includes wishing for hate and disdain on another human being who helped turn a program from a perennial bottom dweller to a legitimate program on the national scene.

Pretty sad.

im thankful what turg did when he was here, but as much as he build this thing, he tore it down also. Some could argue that Turgeon inherited a better team in his first year than what Marshall inherited this year. Im not saying my opinion either way, but it certainly is debatable.

[shockerfanmas]

I could care less what Turgeon left here, because even had he stayed the results would have been the same. Turg is a great guy, I had the pleasure of visiting with him on several occasions. He made a BUSINESS decision, a decision that any coach would have made. You seriously don't think Marshall will make the same decision when the time is right, and leave us with nothing? It happens at every school. I just hope the ill feelings toward Turgeon are exactly the same ill feelings that Marshall gets when he leaves, otherwise we will have a bunch of hypocrites on our hands.

[shockfan89]

I guess that depends on you definition of 'issues'. My definition includes wishing for hate and disdain on another human being who helped turn a program from a perennial bottom dweller to a legitimate program on the national scene.

Pretty sad.

The problem is that most teams are able to build on a brief stint like we had in the national spotlight. I think you can argue right now we are no better off than before MT got here.

I for one would feel a lot different about him had he capitalized at all on the Sweet 16 success. We have exactly ZERO good players on our team that were recruited as a result of that season.

The extremely quick demise says one of two things:

1. We weren't that good to begin with and got lucky to make it as far as we did. I think this is partially true, but lets face it, all teams that have post-season success catch a break here or there. Very few times does the best team win the National Championship.

2. Our coach was not prepared for that level of success and had no idea how to deal with it and turn it into something positive. Leads me to believe maybe we should thank Charles Koch as much as anyone for our Sweet 16 appearance. That is a joke, but I do think upgrading to first class facilities was a HUGE factor in WSU going from almost the bottom to a brief stay at the top and then back to the ..... LOOKING FORWARD TO NEXT SEASON!

[rrshock]

I could care less what Turgeon left here, because even had he stayed the results would have been the same. Turg is a great guy, I had the pleasure of visiting with him on several occasions. He made a BUSINESS decision, a decision that any coach would have made. You seriously don't think Marshall will make the same decision when the time is right, and leave us with nothing? It happens at every school. I just hope the ill feelings toward Turgeon are exactly the same ill feelings that Marshall gets when he leaves, otherwise we will have a bunch of hypocrites on our hands.

If, or when, HCGM leaves, there will probably be ill feelings towards him too. It's the nature of fans to feel that way.

-If he can't fix the problems here, there will be ill feelings towards him ever being hired.

-If he fixes the problems, get's us to the holy land again, then leaves, there will be ill feelings because people wanted him to stay.

-If the second option happens, then he quits recruiting and leaves the next coach with jack squat to work with, then I garan-damn-tee you that there is gonna be ill feelings. No one will stand for having it happen with 2 coaches in a row.

There is no way for him to win unless he stays out his entire career, takes WSU to a couple of final 4s, gets Burger Boys on a consistent basis, wins a national championship, and then retires. That is more than likely the only way there won't be ill feelings towards him leaving the program. And then there will still be someone that is mad that he is retiring. He just won't be able to win with everyone. But he can control how many people he is in good standing with when he does leave.

And I still don't understand why you stick up for the guy so much all the time. But I'll just stay away from going any further.

[SubGod22]

I could care less what Turgeon left here, because even had he stayed the results would have been the same. Turg is a great guy, I had the pleasure of visiting with him on several occasions. He made a BUSINESS decision, a decision that any coach would have made. You seriously don't think Marshall will make the same decision when the time is right, and leave us with nothing? It happens at every school. I just hope the ill feelings toward Turgeon are exactly the same ill feelings that Marshall gets when he leaves, otherwise we will have a bunch of hypocrites on our hands.

If Marshall bolts and takes a recruit with him he'll be treated like many treat Turgeon. Again, as I've said many times, I had no problem with Turgeon leaving. It wasn't until he decided to take a recruit with him that he lost all my respect. I don't think we have to worry about that with Marshall and he's already addressed that issue in the past. Turgeon did some good things and for that I'm thankful, but he showed what he really is when he did something that not even Bob Huggins would do.

[shocktastic]

Re: re

Its always a great day when KU and Turgeon lose on the same day!

I know this discussion has been beat to death but I still don't understand all the hate towards Turg. He did some tremendous things for our program despite the "cupboard being empty" now.

I bet you weren't even a fan before Turg was hired, Newshock1234.

Apparantly you haven't watched any Shox games this year. Look at the lack of players the guy left. He'll always be a terrible coach who makes good programs average. Open your eyes! The plenty of reason to have ill feelings towards Turg. One NCAA tourney (and a good draw) in 7 years, dishonesty, and bad press conferences don't make you a likeable person.

[RipEmUpShox]

turgeon built a sweet 16 bedroom house, then he looked at it, and wasnt happy enough with his house, so in greed he lit it on fire burnt it down and left for another house.
Gregg Marshall picked the pieces up from the rubble and won ten games.

[Shocker Rocker]

The problem is that most teams are able to build on a brief stint like we had in the national spotlight.


I'm sure that this is true for some teams (Gonzaga certainly comes to mind), but I wonder if anyone has systematically looked at what has happened over the past 10-15 years with teams from "mid-major" or "low-major" conferences who have made it to the Sweet Sixteen. How many of them are probably NCAA-bound this year? Are there any teams like the Shocks who have a losing record?

[aShock4life]

The A&M fans are trying to get feedback from WSU people on the Aggie basketball forums...They are having a melt down. But so have alot of our fans this year.

[jocoshock]

Re: re

What about that one little late season surge that put a team into the sweet 16?

Even that season was on the verge of collapse near the end... it took 'the shot' to get past creighton, lost the BB to George Mason (no one knew they were Final Four material at the time) barely got by drake, then got bounced in the second game of the MVC tourney

That was also the 2OT vs SIU, and if i remember right, when we blew a large lead at creighton to lose on a last second shot

Don't know that I could describe the season in that manner. The Valley had 4 teams tied for 1st place that year, with 4 teams making the tourney and 2 making the sweet 16, and George Mason making the Final Four.

It does show the fine line between the winner we were in 2006 and the losers we have been the past two years. WSU like Drake and Illinois State the past few years have lost or won a lot of games by small margins. Even with the Valley allegedly "down" this year, you can't deny that Drake has proven itself against teams like Butler on the road. It only takes a couple of players to make the difference between 2006 and 2008.

We will be better going forward...

:goshocks: :goshocks: :goshocks: :goshocks: :goshocks:

[shockfan89]

The problem is that most teams are able to build on a brief stint like we had in the national spotlight.


I'm sure that this is true for some teams (Gonzaga certainly comes to mind), but I wonder if anyone has systematically looked at what has happened over the past 10-15 years with teams from "mid-major" or "low-major" conferences who have made it to the Sweet Sixteen. How many of them are probably NCAA-bound this year? Are there any teams like the Shocks who have a losing record?

I am not for a second claiming I expected NCAA appearances every year, but I was hoping it would elevate us to the point that we were competing for an MVC Championship every year. I also expected we would use the spotlight to sign some "higher quality players" and maybe one outstanding player. Something like a Miller, a Perez, or even one Maurice Evans type guy that wouldn't have consider WSU prior to the Sweet 16 appearance.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

You can go back and see most of the mid-majors that made the Sweet 16 fell off considerably the following years. Most of those teams have 4 year players that understand the game, have a feel for the other players on the team, and got good matchups.

It took Gonzaga several years to start to really notice an impact on the level of recruits, and early success was based on players fitting a system.

When, and I don't mean maybe, we go to 4 straight tourneys and go 2nd round or Sweet 16 each year, then we will really notice a difference in the recruits considering our program.