Annual Redshirt Guess-a-thon

[1972Shocker]

Anyone can redshirt. Kelly Olynyk redshirted his Junior year after having played two years for Gonzaga.

Yes, but he could not participate in the preseason exhibition games or a preseason closed scrimmage if that was not his 1st year of enrollment. If he had that would have blown his redshirt (assuming the rules were the same then as they are now). And that was the question I was trying to answer -- who could play in the preseason exhibitions/scrimmages without blowing their redshirt -- as there seemed to be some confusion or uncertainty on that point.

I think the 5 years to complete your 4 years of eligibility is pretty well established and understood.

[Kung Wu]

http://www.ncaapublications.com/prod...loads/D115.pdf



Bylaw 17.3.3 (Page 237) covers the preseason competitions allowed by Basketball which of course includes the 1 closed practice scrimmage against D-1 competition and 1 exhibition game against non-D-1 competition that the Shockers play.

Accordingly, this year Shockers who are eligible to redshirt are: Zach Brown, Corey Henderson, Rashard Kelly, Rauno Nurger, Jared Walker, Tevin Glass and Bush Wamukota. I expect the opportunity to redshirt will be removed for all but 1 to 3 of these players after the New Mexico State game and ultimately pretty much cleared up after the Newman game.

Ahhh, that was changed in the last July revision.

[1972Shocker]

Ahhh, that was changed in the last July revision.

Maybe. You would have to go back to the previous year's manual to see exactly what was changed.

[Kung Wu]

Maybe. You would have to go back to the previous year's manual to see exactly what was changed.

Yeah, it would be interesting. It either changed in July or in '06. There was a stink about a football player that was a sophomore or junior that played in two exhibition games and nearly had to forfeit a season because the coach redshirted the player (or so he thought) and then got called on it. Ultimately they appealed it and won, I think, but I bet that's why they changed it.

[Shoxfan11]

Redshirts are not locked-in. They are often declared but don't have to be. In any case, they can be lost at anytime during a season simply by inserting a player into a countable contest. This happens more frequently in football where injury problems are more likely to force a coach's hand, but it can and occasionally does happen in basketball.

I think one of the best examples of this is Turgeon's last year here. I don't remember what game it was, but late in the season he was upset with his team's play and started to head over to JT Durley to send him into the game, who of course hadn't played all year. Thankfully one of his assistants stopped him, because if JT had entered the game, even if he had just played one minute, his last season here would've been 2009-2010 instead of 2010-2011.

[1972Shocker]

Ahhh, that was changed in the last July revision.

Here is the D-1 Manual for 2012-13.

The rule is the same but the Bylaw number was 14.2.3.1.3 (Page 156) as last revised on 05/09/06. So it appears the July 2014 revision was just a bylaw numbering change.

[1972Shocker]

I think one of the best examples of this is Turgeon's last year here. I don't remember what game it was, but late in the season he was upset with his team's play and started to head over to JT Durley to send him into the game, who of course hadn't played all year. Thankfully one of his assistants stopped him, because if JT had entered the game, even if he had just played one minute, his last season here would've been 2009-2010 instead of 2010-2011.

Good recall. I do remember that incident now that you have mentioned it.

[1972Shocker]

To summarize what we seem to have determined:

1. You can redshirt anytime subject to the 5 years to complete 4 years of eligibility rule as pointed out by @Shock Therapy.

2. Preseason exhibition games/practice scrimmages allowed by NCAA rules are not countable contests for players that are in their 1st year of enrollment, otherwise they are countable.

Wichita State players that are still eligible to redshirt this year are: Zach Brown, Corey Henderson, Rauno Nurger, Rashard Kelly, Jared Walker, Tevin Glass and Bush Wamukota.

After the New Mexico State game this list will be greatly reduced.

[Kung Wu]

Here is the D-1 Manual for 2012-13.

The rule is the same but the Bylaw number was 14.2.3.1.3 (Page 156) as last revised on 05/09/06. So it appears the July 2014 revision was just a bylaw numbering change.

Sweet! How are you finding the old revisions? I have wanted to do that in the past and found it difficult.

[1972Shocker]

Sweet! How are you finding the old revisions? I have wanted to do that in the past and found it difficult.

Go to www.ncaapublications.com

To the right of the NCAA PUBLICATIONS.COM you will see links for NCAA MANUALS. Place your cursor on that link and it gives you a drop down window of the current Division Manuals with a MORE ITEMS link at the lower right. Click on the more items and you should be able to find past versions of the manuals and other publications.

[WSUwatcher]

I guess I don't understand how this works. How many games can a player be "active" in before its too late to red shirt them? So Marshall can red shirt someone after the season has started? (Speaking non medical red shirt of course)

Zero.

The only way someone can be redshirted after playing is if he gets hurt before playing in at least 20% of his team's games, AND gets a waiver (of the normal rule, that is, which is that once you play during a season, you've used up that season's eligibility).

Edit: This much (above) I knew. But I didn't know, and didn't take the time to look up, the info about exhibitions and scrimmages being non-countable only for players in their first year of enrollment. That's what I was hoping to learn, from an actual firsthand source, and thanks to 1972 for providing it.

[WSUwatcher]

Once you enter a countable contest for even 1 second you have used up your year of eligibility unless you would otherwise qualify for a hardship waiver for non-controllable events (i.e. medical problems or injuries).

However, the rule regarding exhibitions/scrimmages only apply to those in their first year of enrollment at the institution. As long as you do not enter a countable contest the redshirt for these players is in place. Preseason Exhibitions and Preseason Scrimmages allowed by the NCAA are not countable contests only in your 1st year of enrollment.

Redshirts are not locked-in. They are often declared but don't have to be. In any case, they can be lost at anytime during a season simply by inserting a player into a countable contest. This happens more frequently in football where injury problems are more likely to force a coach's hand, but it can and occasionally does happen in basketball.

As I previously stated I think we will have our answer after the Newman game which is a countable contest in which it is likely that everyone that is going to play this year will see some action.

It actually also happened once in baseball at WSU, where the Shocks were planning to redshirt Kyle Touchatt, a hot but raw prospect from Heights and avoided using him all year, only to reach a point where late in the season injuries and other depth problems on the pitching staff necessitated his being used.

You're probably right about the Newman game being the marker. Obviously the games against NMSU and Memphis are eliminators, in the sense that anyone who plays in those games is committed for the year barring injury. But Newman is the one where everyone who isn't expected to redshirt will almsot certainly play.

[ShockerHoops]

Jared Walker is on scholarship?

[Shock Therapy]

Jared Walker is on scholarship?

No, but he can still redshirt. The same 4 in 5 rule applies to everyone. It doesn't make much sense for him to do so though

[Shock Top]

No, but he can still redshirt. The same 4 in 5 rule applies to everyone. It doesn't make much sense for him to do so though

Why not? Might as well enjoy the Shocker carpet ride as long as you possibly can!