Annual Redshirt Guess-a-thon

[1972Shocker]

Interestingly, we had 4 starters injured at one point in the Final Four season, but didn't pull a redshirt off the bench. Was that because 3G didn't think the redshirters would help (don't remember who they were), or because he prefers to tough it out instead of jack up a player's eligibility over the long term? Short term pain versus long term gain philosophy, I suppose. Who were the redshirts that season?

Good point. The quality of the player you are redshirting makes a lot of difference as well in deciding whether you want to end the redshirt.

It is certainly nice to have the option to redshirt high-potential players. Some players you would like to redshirt but just don't have the luxury. Garrett Stutz comes to mind.

[jocoshock]

Because VanVleet, Baker, and Cotton are going to play a ton of minutes and Henderson, Holland, and Wessel are going to take the pittance that is left over.

How do we know that Henderson and Holland will automatically get more minutes?

I expect minutes to decrease slightly for FVV, Baker, and Cotton as our new guys get acclimated. Brown's chances are as good as any.

Also, HCGM has stated previously that the decision to redshirt is the player's.

[im4wsu]

Though you can take a redshirt off if the situation arises it doesn't happen often. I can't recall it happening once under HCGM but I could be wrong. One thing that makes it less likely is once a player redshirts he gets less immediate attention making it harder to insert him into the rotation.

If you're talking about immediate attention from the fans, I agree. Having watched three actual practices over the Marshall years, I can assure you that every player participating gets the full attention of the coaches. If they outperform those who have been playing, they will play unless 3G and the player have agreed to redshirt. Even then, 3G could ask the player during the season if he wants to retain the redshirt or if he wants to play.

[MadaboutWu]

If you're talking about immediate attention from the fans, I agree. Having watched three actual practices over the Marshall years, I can assure you that every player participating gets the full attention of the coaches. If they outperform those who have been playing, they will play unless 3G and the player have agreed to redshirt. Even then, 3G could ask the player during the season if he wants to retain the redshirt or if he wants to play.

Thanks for sharing that. I was basing what I said from my recollection of a brief comment HCGM made during a radio interview. I certainly didn't mean redshirts are getting neglected just the kind of things they work on might be a little different--more fundamentals and less specific plays for instance. I don't have an axe to grind on this but my hunch is that a player who redshirts is usually a bit behind to begin with and probably falls a little more back as the season progresses in terms of integrating with the rotation. But should be well ahead of the curve of newcomers in his new class the next year.

[MadaboutWu]

Well, that answers that question

What question? (I'm asking seriously).

[wufan]

How do we know that Henderson and Holland will automatically get more minutes?

I expect minutes to decrease slightly for FVV, Baker, and Cotton as our new guys get acclimated. Brown's chances are as good as any.

Also, HCGM has stated previously that the decision to redshirt is the player's.

Well Holland can't redshirt, so there's that. Obviously if Brown is better than Holland and not RSing, then he would get minutes. Henderson is a PG and a down is a wing guard. Henderson was stated as the #3 PG by HCGM. That doesn't guarantee he won't RS, but it's a decent indicator. Brown is currently behind Cotton and Wessel at the 3 and Baker and Holland T the 2. That doesn't guarantee he will RS, but he will RS.

[Dave Stalwart]

What question? (I'm asking seriously).

Kung Wu's question about reasons why Coach may or may not have decided to pull one of the redshirts during all the injuries. It was Derail Green. In other words, it likely wouldn't have helped the team during that time and it also would have screwed up a year of his eligibility pretty significantly if you were already thinking he was a likely transfer, eventually.

[RoyalShock]

I don't know if Brown will or should redshirt, but if he does I liken it to the year PJ redshirted. He probably could have played, too, but the rotation was too crowded for him to get meaningful minutes.

[Dave Stalwart]

How do we know that Henderson and Holland will automatically get more minutes?

I expect minutes to decrease slightly for FVV, Baker, and Cotton as our new guys get acclimated. Brown's chances are as good as any.

Also, HCGM has stated previously that the decision to redshirt is the player's.

I would say that Brown's chances are as good as any if his skill set is closer to PG/SG than it is SG/SF. If he is leaning toward SG/SF, I think it would be great if he were the guy to take a year off. I've said before that I think there are definitely reasons to believe he is solid. For me, it's one of those situations where a guy might redshirt to maximize playing time, not necessarily because he isn't good enough now. Usually, if a guy is ready, you use him...especially if he wants to be on the active roster. That's probably what will happen. I guess I'm looking at it like I would look at Garrett Stutz in hindsight if we had the luxury of having Carl Hall, Gable Blair, Cleanthony Early and EO as juniors and seniors when Garret was a freshman. Zach Brown is in a similar boat at guard. He's playing behind incredible talent. Might as well wait, even if you are good enough.

[jocoshock]

Well Holland can't redshirt, so there's that. Obviously if Brown is better than Holland and not RSing, then he would get minutes. Henderson is a PG and a down is a wing guard. Henderson was stated as the #3 PG by HCGM. That doesn't guarantee he won't RS, but it's a decent indicator. Brown is currently behind Cotton and Wessel at the 3 and Baker and Holland T the 2. That doesn't guarantee he will RS, but he will RS.

Time will tell. I don't think any of us know where the new guys are on the depth chart. Brown will RS if Brown chooses to RS. Ultimately, the decision will be his.

p.s. Brown spent quite a bit of time playing PG at Sunrise last year.

[jocoshock]

I would say that Brown's chances are as good as any if his skill set is closer to PG/SG than it is SG/SF. If he is leaning toward SG/SF, I think it would be great if he were the guy to take a year off. I've said before that I think there are definitely reasons to believe he is solid. For me, it's one of those situations where a guy might redshirt to maximize playing time, not necessarily because he isn't good enough now. Usually, if a guy is ready, you use him...especially if he wants to be on the active roster. That's probably what will happen. I guess I'm looking at it like I would look at Garrett Stutz in hindsight if we had the luxury of having Carl Hall, Gable Blair, Cleanthony Early and EO as juniors and seniors when Garret was a freshman. Zach Brown is in a similar boat at guard. He's playing behind incredible talent. Might as well wait, even if you are good enough.

Will be interesting to see what happens. With Landry and Tyrone coming next year it won't be any less crowded. Either way, competitiom for PT will be fierce. Good problem to have for the coaches and the fans.. :-)

[im4wsu]

Thanks for sharing that. I was basing what I said from my recollection of a brief comment HCGM made during a radio interview. I certainly didn't mean redshirts are getting neglected just the kind of things they work on might be a little different--more fundamentals and less specific plays for instance. I don't have an axe to grind on this but my hunch is that a player who redshirts is usually a bit behind to begin with and probably falls a little more back as the season progresses in terms of integrating with the rotation. But should be well ahead of the curve of newcomers in his new class the next year.

I'm not trying to argue, either, just stating my opinion, just like you are. IMHO, if practices are to be the most beneficial, it is imperative that all participants (starters, reserves, bench players, redshirts and walkons) are effective in running the schemes at practice. Whether they are a polished in their skills as others, they need to be in the right positions during practices.

[wufan]

I do not believe that BWam and Glass can RS now.

[wu_shizzle]

I do not believe that BWam and Glass can RS now.

This is just an exhibition.

[TheDover1018]

Is there any way we can redshirt Baker and FVV, while simultaneously letting them play this year and gaining an extra year of eligibility?