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2014-15 National Rankings

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  • I want to be ranked as high as we can. But after the MVC starts, all we can really do is go undefeated and hope schools in front tank. Beating UNI will help, but we won't get a huge bump by winning. And if we lose, we probably fall as much as if we lost to Evansville.

    We have to remember that we are in the top, what, 5% of all teams?

    Its always easier to raise your stature from the bottom. Much more difficult the higher you are.

    We have to just start compiling MVC titles and NCAA tourney runs. we have really only been on the scene for 3 years. Just keep eating whats being served and sooner or later, our ass will be too big to move outta the scene.
    "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!

    Comment


    • I usually wait, until mid-March, before weighing in on these arguments.

      I must admit that the foregoing arguments are interesting, penetrating, powerful, logical, illogical, intellectual, funny and so forth.

      I wish I was smart enough to join in the discussion, but I am not. Here is the proof. I do not understand the following.

      UNI beats MSU by 14 and improves two notches in the poll. WSU waxes UE by 20 and moves down one notch.
      Last edited by Ricardo del Rio; January 20, 2015, 01:53 PM.
      "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it is about the future."

      --Niels Bohr







      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post
        Voters can do stupid things at times. That does not mean their stupidity is justified.

        For example, any voter who continued to give 06-07 WSU credit for beating #6 LSU, despite the fact that LSU quickly proved to be nothing more than a borderline top 50 team, well, that voter was just a fool. Anyone doing rankings of any real value acknowledges that the rank of an opponent at the time of the game is of significantly less value than the current rank of an opponent.
        Yet another strawman from you, sir. There is no "voter" mentioned in my post. My post dealt with "perception" and used KenPom rankings.
        "I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13 :peaceful:
        ---------------------------------------
        Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
        "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".

        A physician called into a radio show and said:
        "That's the definition of a stool sample."

        Comment


        • Originally posted by shocktheheart View Post
          ESPN's power rankings are out for this week. We stay at #15 and have WV and OU jump us. Breakdown of voting:
          Brennan: 16
          C.L Brown: 14
          Farnham: 15
          Gassaway: 19
          *******: 17
          Grennburg: 15
          Katz: 18
          Lunardi: 15
          Medcalf: 16
          O'neil: 15

          http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask.../powerrankings
          We stay at #15 this week again. Nobody jumped us this week. First rank is last week, next is this week.

          Brennan: 16, 13
          C.L Brown: 14, 13
          Farnham: 15, 14
          Gassaway: 19, 18
          *******: 17, 16
          Grennburg: 15, 15
          Katz: 18, 14
          Lunardi: 15, 15
          Medcalf: 16, 16
          O'neil: 15, 14

          Visit ESPN for live scores, highlights and sports news. Stream exclusive games on ESPN+ and play fantasy sports.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ricardo del Rio View Post
            I usually wait, until mid-March, before weighing in on these arguments.
            I do not understand the following.

            UNI beats MSU by 14 and improves two notches in the poll. WSU waxes UE by 20 and moves down one notch.
            Basically I think we have been unlucky with where the losses in the top 25 have fallen the last couple of weeks. 15-25 have been a bloodbath and some losses have happened in the top 10 but relatively few 8-13.
            Shocker Nation, NYC

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ricardo del Rio View Post
              I usually wait, until mid-March, before weighing in on these arguments.

              I must admit that the foregoing arguments are interesting, penetrating, powerful, logical, illogical, intellectual, funny and so forth.

              I wish I was smart enough to join in the discussion, but I am not. Here is the proof. I do not understand the following.

              UNI beats MSU by 14 and improves two notches in the poll. WSU waxes UE by 20 and moves down one notch.
              Rankings don't matter so much as votes. We received more votes in this poll than in the last one ... saying that we lost a spot seems like we were punished. We were rewarded, it's just that others were rewarded more.

              As for UNI, like @ShockerPrez: just said, "Its always easier to raise your stature from the bottom. Much more difficult the higher you are." The teams that were ahead of UNI all lost, the teams ahead of us (directly) all won.
              Originally posted by BleacherReport
              Fred VanVleet on Shockers' 3-Pt Shooting Confidence -- ' Honestly, I just tell these guys to let their nuts hang.'

              Comment


              • Originally posted by im4wsu View Post
                Yet another strawman from you, sir. There is no "voter" mentioned in my post. My post dealt with "perception" and used KenPom rankings.
                Oh please. I mentioned the voters because they are the people who actually give us their "perception" of each basketball team in the form of weekly rankings. Substitute "John Doe" or "people" instead of "voters" in my post and nothing substantial changes about the point I was making.

                Any "person" who tries to evaluate teams and form a "perception" of them, good or bad, should be smart enough to use current rankings (KenPom or otherwise), not rankings at the time a game was played. Failure to do so is a failure by that person to make a good evaluation.

                This is exactly why I stopped our PM conversation. im4wsu, it is almost impossible to have a conversation with you because of all the irrelevant technicalities you throw out. You seem to constantly sabotage the conversation with rabbit trails that simply do not affect the larger discussion.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post
                  Oh please. I mentioned the voters because they are the people who actually give us their "perception" of each basketball team in the form of weekly rankings. Substitute "John Doe" or "people" instead of "voters" in my post and nothing substantial changes about the point I was making.

                  Any "person" who tries to evaluate teams and form a "perception" of them, good or bad, should be smart enough to use current rankings (KenPom or otherwise), not rankings at the time a game was played. Failure to do so is a failure by that person to make a good evaluation.

                  This is exactly why I stopped our PM conversation. im4wsu, it is almost impossible to have a conversation with you because of all the irrelevant technicalities you throw out. You seem to constantly sabotage the conversation with rabbit trails that simply do not affect the larger discussion.
                  Pot calling kettle! Nice distraction!
                  "I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13 :peaceful:
                  ---------------------------------------
                  Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
                  "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".

                  A physician called into a radio show and said:
                  "That's the definition of a stool sample."

                  Comment


                  • All of this back & forth reminds me a classic Tarantino movie.

                    “Losers Average Losers.” ― Paul Tudor Jones

                    Comment


                    • I have never thought of im4wsu as a troll until recently. Can anyone else actually interpret what he is saying as something with substance? I'm willing to listen if he's being serious, so if I'm just missing something, please help me understand what he's trying to get at.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DUShock View Post
                        All of this back & forth reminds me a classic Tarantino movie.

                        Here's an underrated scene from another classic Quentin Tarantino movie... oops, sorry; might have the wrong thread. :)

                        "You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post
                          What argument could there possibly have been for ranking WSU ahead of Nova in yesterday's poll?

                          Villanova had:
                          better KenPom ranking
                          better RPI ranking
                          better W/L record
                          better SOS
                          better quality wins

                          Villanova was a road OT loss to a top 50 team away from being undefeated when the voters submitted their ballots.

                          San Diego State and Iowa is a fair comparison. I'll admit that fair minded folks could go either way there. Like I said, I didn't necessarily agree Iowa should have been top 25, but it is at least a defensible position to take. Saying WSU should have been above Villanova is 100 times less defensible.
                          I never tried to make the argument that wsu should be ahead of them. I simply said there isn't much separating the two. The neutral vcu win is the only thing that puts them ahead of us in my eyes. After the loss to the hoyas I'd say it's about a wash as of now. Yes I know that has no bearing on this weeks poll but I would be surprised to see them drop past 10 next week.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jamar Howard 4 President View Post
                            Oh please. I mentioned the voters because they are the people who actually give us their "perception" of each basketball team in the form of weekly rankings. Substitute "John Doe" or "people" instead of "voters" in my post and nothing substantial changes about the point I was making.

                            Any "person" who tries to evaluate teams and form a "perception" of them, good or bad, should be smart enough to use current rankings (KenPom or otherwise), not rankings at the time a game was played. Failure to do so is a failure by that person to make a good evaluation.

                            This is exactly why I stopped our PM conversation. im4wsu, it is almost impossible to have a conversation with you because of all the irrelevant technicalities you throw out. You seem to constantly sabotage the conversation with rabbit trails that simply do not affect the larger discussion.
                            Not that i want to get in the middle of this, but an informed voter should also consider injuries. For example, WSU drubbed a full strength Seton Hall team.

                            My point is that there are circumstances where the teams current ranking does not reflect the quality of the team at the time they both played. Likewise, beating a team when they are missing some starters is not as impressive, either.
                            You miss 100% of the shots you don't take....

                            .....but, statistically speaking, you miss 99% of the shots you do take.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Steeleshocker View Post
                              Not that i want to get in the middle of this, but an informed voter should also consider injuries. For example, WSU drubbed a full strength Seton Hall team.

                              My point is that there are circumstances where the teams current ranking does not reflect the quality of the team at the time they both played. Likewise, beating a team when they are missing some starters is not as impressive, either.
                              Those are exceptions to the rule, not the rule itself. We can always make unique exceptions as needed, but it only makes sense to start from a point of view that more games played equals a better sample to evaluate from. If special adjustments then need to be made due to major changes in the make-up of a team, I'm fine with that.

                              Comment


                              • The very first rankings of the year always starts out with the previous years sucess and who is coming back, and what teams have the highest so called recruits, aka. Mcdonald All- Americans so on so forth. What league you play in gets you more points, say the power five and yes the blue bloods are all going to be ranked high every year starting out. Then the season starts, blue bloods play one anotheir on neutral floors, worst thing that can happen is a quality loss.Quality teams not in the power five hit the road for hopefully getting quality wins, or hopefully getting in tourneys that have teams from the power five in them, and hopefully doing well and getting some street cred and votes in the polls. Much longer walk to get to the top 25 for these teams and sometimes years to build up a reputation that keeps you relevant. Much easier for a team in the bottom or middle of the pack in a power 5 conference to accend to the top 25 because they will be playing 4-6 teams in their so-called power conference twice a year and just winning a few of those games will more than likely get them in the Big Dance. Much easier road, they usually play an inferior non.-con. schedual because they know the league will save them, aka. ksu. I always like to wait till the end of the year to evaluate teams whole body of work. Every year the mighty who are bestowed these lofty rankings will slide down the rankings, it usually takes about 8-10 losses, albeit quality losses to see them fall from the top 25. There is a bias even though they try to say their isnt, but you see it every year. Now we know the Valley isnt the greatest conference out there but it wasnt that long ago that MSU was shafted big time with a top 25 rpi and were left out, so dont tell me there isnt any bias out there.

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