I just cant help it.....

[wsu789]

KC: I didn't say you were not a WSU fan. Only you know the answer to that question, but pointing to the number of posts you've had on here (particularly given the nature of many of them) doesn't prove a lot to me. I said it is difficult for me to imagine, based upon your apparent disdain for our lot in life and your constantly negative attitude, that you are, or really even how you are.

It is one thing to be realistic, as many on here, myself included, try to be. It is another to be self (as in the "WSU self") loathing.

What I find insulting is not that WSU is "considered" a mid-major by some outside (and at least one inside) observer. What I find insulting, indeed baffling, is that you do not appear to recognize or believe that our administration, coaches, players, and fans can rise above that label and consistently compete at the BCS level.

I believe that we can. That belief is based on history and the quality of the people listed above. And I'd like to think that all WSU fans believe something similar to that.

It would be a lot easier to be a KU fan. It would be a lot easier to go on KU's boards and run down the program to which you claim allegiance. It would be a lot easier to write off the unwritten future of this program as another mediocre cog in the mid-major machine.

What kind of a fan would you be, what kind of person, if that was your attitude?

[Overtime]

Even going by the star rating, aren't the recruits coming in next year more highly rated as a class than any class Turg brought in over his 7 years?....Paul Miller came in part becuase he initially had an interest in playing baseball, that was coach Turdgeon's best recruit. Mark's last 3 years were one recruiting failure after another....Right or wrong ,My second favorite team is whoever Texas A&M happens to be playing

[ISASO]

If you can't spell the man's name right, don't post. Regardless of any feelings you might have, spell his name right.

[SubGod22]

CU and SIU have both signed 4 star recruits the past couple of years.

[Overtime]

Pardon the spelling error ISASO.....Aren't we a little bit cranky?...

[SB Shock]

Right or wrong ,My second favorite team is whoever Texas A&M happens to be playing

I'd say wrong.

Mark Turgeon


No. 3 Coach in wins in WSU basketball history (and just behind Ralph Miller in Winning Pct).

3 - 20+ wins seasons (first 20 wins season since '87-88)

MVC Finishes:

1st (1) - First MVC finish since '82-83 season
2nd (2) - First 2nd place MVC finish since '88-89 season
3rd (1)
5th (1)
6th (1)
9th (1)

In the National Polls for the first time since '83-84

[shockfan89_]

The bottom line is, like it or not, WSU is a mid-major in basketball. We have made the NCAA Tournament one time in the last... well FOREVER! That is not a dynasty! That is not tradition rich! That was a good team that got hot (and lucky) at the right time! WSU USED to be a good basketball program but it isn't now and wasn't under MT!!!!!

MT turned the program around and got it headed in the right direction. We didn't capitalize on it and fell back to where we were when MT arrived. I believe HCGM will get things turned around, but we have to compete for an MVC title EVERY YEAR and be a threat in the MVC Tournament EVERY YEAR and make the NCAA every other year to even consider not being labeled as a mid-major.

KC is right that it will be VERY hard for a WSU to get rid of the mid-major title. It will take a coach that is dedicated to WSU and not just using it as a stepping stone to the next level. I believe Gene even said the same thing when he left for OU. In order to be successful in the MVC you have to work twice as hard with half as much to get the same athletes and have the same success. It is just the reality. The baseball team proved it could be done last year but you HAVE TO CASH IN ON IT WHEN IT HAPPENS. MT didn't. If we are ever lucky enough to get another chance like that we better not let it slip away again!!!

[Capitol Shock]

Was WSU a mid major back when Antoine, Cliff and X played?

I think the Mid Major label was created by the media and big conference elite as a way of separating themselves.

I don't buy into it and won't buy into it. Most of the time a man that believes he will never achieve greatness...probably never will.

To achieve you have to believe!

[shockfan89_]

My opinion is we were in the national spotlight then. I have no problem with aspiring to be great, but I do have a problem calling this a tradition-rich program judging it on the past 20 years of sucess, or lack thereof.

[ISASO]

Is South Carolina a mid-major basketball program? They haven't won a game in the NCAA Tournament in over 30 years.

What about Nebraska? Are they a mid-major basketball program? They have never won an NCAA Tournament game.

That's why "mid-major" is an arbitrary term.

[shockfan89_]

Is South Carolina a mid-major basketball program? They haven't won a game in the NCAA Tournament in over 30 years.

What about Nebraska? Are they a mid-major basketball program? They have never won an NCAA Tournament game.

That's why "mid-major" is an arbitrary term.

I totally agree it is arbitrary. But for an MVC team to want to bust away from the term we would have to have a string of success like SIU has had. We haven't even come close to that. Yet!

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I think the next 4 years will be key in separating ourselves from the term, and the other teams in the Valley. Creighton and SIU will continue to be good, but them and WSU need to create some separation from the rest of the Valley and do some damage in March.

Creighton will be solid next year, and SIU and WSU have very good recruiting classes coming in.

[Hotel Paper]

Is South Carolina a mid-major basketball program? They haven't won a game in the NCAA Tournament in over 30 years.

What about Nebraska? Are they a mid-major basketball program? They have never won an NCAA Tournament game.

That's why "mid-major" is an arbitrary term.

Mid Majors are schools that have auto bids to the BCS in football.

http://www.midmajority.com/2006/12/definitions-whats-a-midmajor.php

this such also help.

[SB Shock]

WSU USED to be a good basketball program but it isn't now and wasn't under MT!!!!!

I believe this statement will not hold up to any scrutiny.

The statement about "Mid-Majors" just shows your ignorance of what Mid-Major even stands for.

[shockfan89_]

WSU USED to be a good basketball program but it isn't now and wasn't under MT!!!!!

I believe this statement will not hold up to any scrutiny.

The statement about "Mid-Majors" just shows your ignorance of what Mid-Major even stands for.

So you think this was a good basketball program under MT? I think we were on our way, but I don't think you can say one really good year and two ok years make a solid program unless you have VERY LOW standards. Then when you factor in we were terrible before and terrible after I think you have your answer!

Everyone has their own take on what defines a mid-major. To me it is a program that struggles to compete with the BCS schools for a number of different factors. Sure we have great facilities and pay our coaches like we are a major but if you look at the product on the court we are still VERY MUCH a mid-major. I guess I miss the ignorance there? Maybe you and your infinate wisdom can help me SB?