I just cant help it.....

[Shoxfan11]

I'm going to get killed for this but MT is not to blame for recruiting failures. I know most of you are wondering why MT didn't parlay our Sweet 16 appearance into better recruits. The answer, WSU is still a mid-major program from a mid-major conference.

The odds of us recruiting 4 and 5 star recruits are just very slim. I doubt we will ever see a McDonald's all-american come to our program and we just can't compete from an athletic budget like the BCS conferences have the luxury of doing.

It's just being the day-in-the-life of being a mid-major.

This is a legit question, I honestly don't know the answer, but I'm curious: What level of players has Gonzaga recruited the past years? I looked up Adam Morrison and it turned out he was only a three star coming out of high school, but I'd be surprised if they hadn't got some 4 stars in there.

[fastbow]

Why go by star ratings? We all know Rivals will never show us any love. See the star rating on that one recruit who followed Turg to Texas A&M, and anything in our baseball forum.

That said, i agree we should have had better recruits, or at least a better conditioning program. Marshall has shown no love for Turg's way of working, from the weight programs to the training table...

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

I'm going to get killed for this but MT is not to blame for recruiting failures. I know most of you are wondering why MT didn't parlay our Sweet 16 appearance into better recruits. The answer, WSU is still a mid-major program from a mid-major conference.

The odds of us recruiting 4 and 5 star recruits are just very slim. I doubt we will ever see a McDonald's all-american come to our program and we just can't compete from an athletic budget like the BCS conferences have the luxury of doing.

It's just being the day-in-the-life of being a mid-major.

Who was expecting 4 and 5* recruits?

It was the fact that we seemed to get better recruits when our record was worse that had most of us scratching our heads.

Truth

[GoShox117]

I'm going to get killed for this but MT is not to blame for recruiting failures. I know most of you are wondering why MT didn't parlay our Sweet 16 appearance into better recruits. The answer, WSU is still a mid-major program from a mid-major conference.

The odds of us recruiting 4 and 5 star recruits are just very slim. I doubt we will ever see a McDonald's all-american come to our program and we just can't compete from an athletic budget like the BCS conferences have the luxury of doing.

It's just being the day-in-the-life of being a mid-major.

One word: Memphis. There is no reason MT couldn't have gotten better players after our sweet 16, he is a horrible recruiter. I can't wait until he fails in the years to come.

[ISASO]

KC, no one was expecting a full crop of 4 and 5-star players. Stop jumping off the pity-party deep end of despair. Where are the players simply good enough to progress to be juniors right now?

Wendell was the best player to manage progressing to be a senior next season?

Shouldn't Turgeon have left 3 seniors for next year's roster who are pretty solid college basketball players, even if they are "only" at the level of his first class - Rob Kampman, Jamar Howard and Randy Burns?

How did that happen? The Class of '05-'06 where are you now?

[WuDrWu]

I have attempted to stay out of the "Turg bashing" that seemingly will not die but I feel the need to interject, if just for a moment.


1)What Mark did for the program as a whole is not up for discussion.

2)Mark's recruiting problems can be summed up in the one comment he made on several occasions. He lamented several times on how we missed out on Adam Koch (UNI). He really wanted that kid. Bad.



Don't get me wrong. Adam is a nice player. Good skills. He is a basketball player and a winner. But this is the "star" player we missed on...this was the pinnacle that Mark thought he could get "at this level". I think Mark overcame this after the S16 but unfortunately his departure destoyed what would have been the best class in 2 decades.

[wsu789]

I am probably as big an MT defender as you'll find. But there is no getting around the lack of talent in our current junior and sophomore class. Along with Koch, Ben Uzoh was a big miss that they really wanted.

Personally, I think it would be easier to sell playing time than "come be a part of this just off a Sweet 16 team where we only lost one player." I think that is why Turgeon recruited better early in his tenure than later.

But I think if we had landed Koch, Uzoh and a couple of others, Turgeon would still be here.

KC Shox, you're the master of a straw man argument. No one has suggested, as far as I know, that Turgeon should have been recruiting McD AA off the sweet 16. To say he couldn't have done better than he did is simply absurd.

Your ability to blame everything negative about the program with our "station" as a mid-major is bothersome and insulting, not only to the University but to anyone who was not born with a silver spoon in their mouth. The individual ability and talent--of coaches, administrators, student athletes, and fans--play a significant role in the development of a program. Saying that those things are trumped by conference affiliation (particularly in a league that recently put four teams in the tournament and two in the sweet 16 in the same year) is ridiculous and stupid. It's really difficult for me to imagine that you are truly a WSU fan.

[ABC]

Amen 789!!

[60Shock]

I fully supported MT while he was here the same as I will fully GM during his tenure.

The is no question MT took this program from the pits and brought it back to life. He brought in quality recruits, not great, but players a foundation could be built around. We got into post season play, first in the NIT, and then suddenly, during our first return to the NCAA, we achieved sudden success. How many of us really believed we would make it to the Sweet 16 our first time back?

Then, at the start of the following year we beat GMU, Syracuse, and LSU on the road and we were ranked #8 in the nation. And I don't believe there was more than one or two of you out there who (although you won't admit it now) didn't think that MT was the greatest thing to come along since sex was discovered.

Then disaster struck and the bottom dropped out. But even while all this was going on, and well before he left, comments about recent weak recruiting classes were starting to surface on this board.

It's a given - The man did not recruit well for two consecutive years. I have no idea why this happened, but it did. But still there were some of you who even hyped up these recruiting classes.

Now many of you act like he did this on purpose! Do you really think that he had an underlying motive to sabatoge the program and then skip out like a skunk in the night?

Do any of you really think that he did not try and do his best? The fact that he did poorly is undeniable. On paper, the only good looking recruiting class he had achieved, was the one that did not eventually materialize.

I choose to give him the benefit that he tried, failed badly in recruiting, obviously saw the handwriting on the wall, was offered an opportunity he couldn't refuse, and moved on.

We should do the same!

[Aargh]

Current Jr. class attributable to the previous coach: Preadom, Clemente.

Current So class attributable to the previous coach: Mekel.

Current Fr class attributable to the previous coach: Durley, Hatch

That's 5 players in 3 years - and some of those are questionable as D1 players. I'm not looking for 4* or 5* players - just some bodies to put on the court.

Had the previous coach stayed, the incoming class would have been Sampay, Baker, Clemente and - well, players from the same group Marshall had available to pick from after he got here. Sampay's 4.2 pts. and 2.9 boards at IlSt doesn't look too impressive.

Bowles was never likely to end up at WSU regardless of who was coaching. Bowles' "inability" to qualify in time to sign an LOI was a red flag bigger than the USA flag at Eck Stadium. It's really "amazing" how he qualified so suddenly once there was an offer from a BCS school on the table.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Current Jr. class attributable to the previous coach: Preadom, Clemente.

Current So class attributable to the previous coach: Mekel.

Current Fr class attributable to the previous coach: Durley, Hatch

That's 5 players in 3 years - and some of those are questionable as D1 players. I'm not looking for 4* or 5* players - just some bodies to put on the court.

Had the previous coach stayed, the incoming class would have been Sampay, Baker, Clemente and - well, players from the same group Marshall had available to pick from after he got here. Sampay's 4.2 pts. and 2.9 boards at IlSt doesn't look too impressive.

Bowles was never likely to end up at WSU regardless of who was coaching. Bowles' "inability" to qualify in time to sign an LOI was a red flag bigger than the USA flag at Eck Stadium. It's really "amazing" how he qualified so suddenly once there was an offer from a BCS school on the table.

And what was it that President Reagan said about "facts?"

[KC Shox]

I am probably as big an MT defender as you'll find. But there is no getting around the lack of talent in our current junior and sophomore class. Along with Koch, Ben Uzoh was a big miss that they really wanted.

Personally, I think it would be easier to sell playing time than "come be a part of this just off a Sweet 16 team where we only lost one player." I think that is why Turgeon recruited better early in his tenure than later.

But I think if we had landed Koch, Uzoh and a couple of others, Turgeon would still be here.

KC Shox, you're the master of a straw man argument. No one has suggested, as far as I know, that Turgeon should have been recruiting McD AA off the sweet 16. To say he couldn't have done better than he did is simply absurd.

Your ability to blame everything negative about the program with our "station" as a mid-major is bothersome and insulting, not only to the University but to anyone who was not born with a silver spoon in their mouth. The individual ability and talent--of coaches, administrators, student athletes, and fans--play a significant role in the development of a program. Saying that those things are trumped by conference affiliation (particularly in a league that recently put four teams in the tournament and two in the sweet 16 in the same year) is ridiculous and stupid. It's really difficult for me to imagine that you are truly a WSU fan.

I could really care less whether or not you think I'm a WSU fan. The facts however, speak for themselves. I wouldn't have made 1800+ posts on this board wasting my time discussing WSU sports if I weren't. In addition, I wouldn't have just bought a Shockernet T if I weren't a WSU fan and supporter of Shockernet. But, it's a free country and you can come to your own conclusions.

As I've said many times before, I do not adopt or conform to many of your Yellow Shades wearing happy-go-lucky type support for the Shox. The quicker you accept and understand this, the less of a problem you will have with my posts.

Don't give me that WSU is a mid-major is insulting crap. WSU is. Shockernet has argued this many times before, and ultimately I've come to the conclusion that Conference affiliation, athletic budgets, the amount of media exposure are the three main issues that prohibits WSU from not being considered a mid-major.

We can't compete for the 4 and 5 star recruits. They are not going to want to sign with a program that does not offer consistent tv time and is not in large media markets. Obviously athletic budgets speaks for itself and lastly, when was the last time any Valley team signed a 4 or 5 star recruit not to mention WSU specifically.

Great talent wins ballgames son, and we just don't have that. MT was able to get us into the post-season not just on talent but was able to get the most out of average players and fortunately during our Sweet 16 run, had a team that had good chemistry. This was a fluke and can only occur occassionally. Consistently bringing in the top talent and reloading is the only way WSU is going to consistently be a 18 to 20+ game winner.

[SB Shock]

I could really care less whether or not you think I'm a WSU fan. The facts however, speak for themselves. I wouldn't have made 1800+ posts on this board wasting my time discussing WSU sports if I weren't. In addition, I wouldn't have just bought a Shockernet T if I weren't a WSU fan and supporter of Shockernet. But, it's a free country and you can come to your own conclusions.

As I've said many times before, I do not adopt or conform to many of your Yellow Shades wearing happy-go-lucky type support for the Shox. The quicker you accept and understand this, the less of a problem you will have with my posts.

Don't give me that WSU is a mid-major is insulting crap. WSU is. Shockernet has argued this many times before, and ultimately I've come to the conclusion that Conference affiliation, athletic budgets, the amount of media exposure are the three main issues that prohibits WSU from not being considered a mid-major.

We can't compete for the 4 and 5 star recruits. They are not going to want to sign with a program that does not offer consistent tv time and is not in large media markets. Obviously athletic budgets speaks for itself and lastly, when was the last time any Valley team signed a 4 or 5 star recruit not to mention WSU specifically.

Great talent wins ballgames son, and we just don't have that. MT was able to get us into the post-season not just on talent but was able to get the most out of average players and fortunately during our Sweet 16 run, had a team that had good chemistry. This was a fluke and can only occur occassionally. Consistently bringing in the top talent and reloading is the only way WSU is going to consistently be a 18 to 20+ game winner.

Your schtick is always the same. Do you wear blue pajamas?

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Wichita is the 69th largest TV market in the US.

Spokane, WA is 77th.


The Wichita Metro Area consist of an estimated 584,000

The Spokane Metro Area consist of an estimated 446,000


The McCarthey Athletics Center hold 6,000 fans

Charles Koch Arena holds 10, 478 fans


Gonzaga has signed 6 4* players since 2004

WSU has signed 0

EDIT: In 2003, Gonzaga signed 2 3* recruits, Derek Raivio and Adam Morrison.

[60Shock]

Apparently our good friends at George Mason University have unfortunately not realized much recruiting success from their
FINAL 4 place finish either.

Sounds like we need to do it back-to-back and belly-to-belly.