Building a rivalry with Loyola? Lol

[ripemupshocks]

I'm sure the writer of the article (media) understands better than most, the media is usually full of sh*t. Television media is easily the worst. They are generally a bunch of self-serving, self-absorbed, talking heads for whom facts and the truth are not tremendously important. Their job is to make money by selling ad time. Do whatever it takes to get us tiny brained, rubbernecking humans to watch. If need be, make it up. If there is no train wreck, create one, because there is no profit in order, only in chaos. And the Wichita media (KWCH) is no different than any other. Anything they spew from their pieholes must be taken with a grain of salt. But hey, the guy has to write about something. Might as well get Wichita on the Loyola hate list right off the bat.

And besides, how often have we here on ShockerNet gotten our panties in a bunch because some idiot talkinghead in some other media market, who didn't care enough to do his/her homework, took a shot at our us.

God I love college sports!

[ShockTalk]

I was under the impression Belmont was not interested in joining the Valley since they had just joined the OVC. Incorrect impression?

Belmont is good now, yes. But I have a feeling Loyola has more upside. Last year Belmont averaged 2734 and Loyola averaged 2278. That's Belmont at it's peak, and Loyola before getting a bump from their switch to the Valley and better opponents into their gym.

I know that I liked Murray State. However, it's projected (yes, I know, projected) that they may have a tough time winning more than 15 games this year, even in a conference that has 7 teams with projected RPIs lower than the bottom team in the Valley and having a losing record in the OOC. So, how many games would they have won had they been in the Valley this year? There just wasn't any kind of replacement for CU and slim pickings of schools that could make any kind of immediate impact.

Not adding a team was an option too little considered. Very short-sighted. The country is in a state of constant conference realignment. Waiting a couple of years to see if a much better team became available was a much better idea. Loyola still would've been there. In fact, they could've spent those 2 years proving they are serious about the investment and improvement of the program.

I think the Valley felt they needed to act quickly to keep other league schools (more than WSU) from possibly bolting with their football connections. Unless football schools start taking a bigger hit in the pocketbook, the chances of the MVC improving is very slim and will probably continue to get worse.

[RoyalShock]

I think the only way the MVC improves is if further realignment leaves someone in the region looking for a new home. For example, say VCU and/or one of SLU or Dayton were to get an invite to the Big East or as a non-football add to the AAC. Will SLU and/or Dayton still be happy in the A-10?

While I would love for WSU to get an invitation to join a stabilized AAC (that still has three of Memphis, UCconn, Cinci and Tulsa), I think the next best scenario involves bringing SLU and Dayton to the Valley. But I think that's only reasonable if VCU is no longer in the A-10. And I would also bet that if VCU were to bolt for the AAC, the Big East would immediately pounce on SLU and Dayton.

So I guess we're still doomed.

[WSUwatcher]

It does not matter that Belmont is a distinguished academic institution in Nashville with a basketball team known for knocking off the KUs and North Carolinas of the world. Nor does it matter that they are 110-20 at home since opening their new arena. Nor does it matter that its only a 3.5 hour drive for Belmont's healthy fan base to get to St. Louis for the tournament. What matters is that it is a 6 hour bus drive for Illinois State to get to Nashville and it disrupts the plan to rename the conference to the Illinois Valley Conference. Adding the Chicago market was fine only if they also added the Nashville market to offset the RPI hit. Then add one more western school for a 12 team conference, split into East and West. Would have guaranteed an extra at-large bid.

Far too sensible for this league, hoopsfan. I know Royal talked about Belmont at its peak, but they've been peaking for a while now -- how long does it have to last before it isn't a peak, but just their current level, kind of like Winthrop when Marshall was there?

Having said that, though, I'm like some others in being old enough to remember listening to WSU play Loyola when it was a big game against a name team. (Maybe when Rick Weaver was doing the call for WSU, and Mike Kennedy was a kid listening on the radio, too?) So I'm not going to scoff too hard at their current state -- all I have to do is think about WSU in the 90s, and that temptation disappears -- or abandon hope for their program to be an asset.

Of course, I'd prefer to be looking at their program as an asset in the rearview mirror as I think about WSU in the Mountain West, but that's another story...

[ShockerPrez]

I stopped reading at whatever point he was making about Porter Moser.

[jocoshock]

I'm sure the writer of the article (media) understands better than most, the media is usually full of sh*t. Television media is easily the worst. They are generally a bunch of self-serving, self-absorbed, talking heads for whom facts and the truth are not tremendously important. Their job is to make money by selling ad time. Do whatever it takes to get us tiny brained, rubbernecking humans to watch. If need be, make it up. If there is no train wreck, create one, because there is no profit in order, only in chaos. And the Wichita media (KWCH) is no different than any other. Anything they spew from their pieholes must be taken with a grain of salt. But hey, the guy has to write about something. Might as well get Wichita on the Loyola hate list right off the bat.

And besides, how often have we here on ShockerNet gotten our panties in a bunch because some idiot talkinghead in some other media market, who didn't care enough to do his/her homework, took a shot at our us.

God I love college sports!

Exactly! Especially the part about OUR panties.. :-)

[Dave Stalwart]

Cue @WstateU:

[WstateU]

Cue @WstateU:

Wow, what a wad!

[ShockerPhi]

^ Nailed it

[Kung Wu]

I understand The Valleys intent with Loyola.

Replace Creighton with somebody, anybody and penetrate the Chicago market.
Ok, I get it.

But holy smokes, let's do it with legitimate program. These guys are horrible and make this league look, well, like a Horizon League Siamese twin.

Was this really the target replacement plan?


I know The Valley is trying to put on a good face. But this is low level bush league and they could have done better.

That is all.

I remain unconvinced that the current leadership of the MVC (specifically the commissioner) can do any better. Time for new leadership.

[Kung Wu]

I think the Valley felt they needed to act quickly to keep other league schools (more than WSU) from possibly bolting with their football connections.

Interesting thought. I don't pay any attention at all to MVC football, so I am curious how adding LoChic helped prevent MVC football schools from getting squirrelly?

[ShockTalk]

Interesting thought. I don't pay any attention at all to MVC football, so I am curious how adding LoChic helped prevent MVC football schools from getting squirrelly?

I think it had more to do with "where" the Valley was going to expand, than whether that new school had football. The MAC, an FBS conference, has an uneven number of teams. One of Ill St, possibly UNI, and on the outside, SIU, might consider going there (if asked) if given what they thought was a good enough reason to leave the Valley. I'm not sure what other avenues might be open to the eastern Valley football schools, but it is a potential additional avenue out that the basketball only schools don't have if they get sideways with the MVC.

WSU is the most likely school to leave the Valley and, even though that would be a hit on the Valley, I don't believe the eastern schools wanted anything to do with "western expansion", particularly if WSU was a likely candidate to leave regardless. Some of them may have a little leverage to say they don't want the Dakota schools or a Denver. Going to North Dakota every other year for football is much different than having to do it for all sports. Loyola was perfect. It even has appeal for the Iowa schools. Frankly, the eastern Valley schools may not care that much if WSU left and MSU headed to the Sun Belt. They'd pick off the best, rest of the Horizon and go on their happy way and do a lot of shorter bus trips.

[jocoshock]

Hall of fame calls its first team - The Loyola Ramblers

http://m.kansascity.com/?cu=spreed%3A%2F15988412%2F15988419%2F20949531

The Ramblers were 24-2 in the regular season. One of of those losses was to Shox. They beat Cincy for the national Championship. The Bearcats only regular season loss - also to the Shox...

[Kung Wu]

I think it had more to do with "where" the Valley was going to expand, than whether that new school had football. The MAC, an FBS conference, has an uneven number of teams. One of Ill St, possibly UNI, and on the outside, SIU, might consider going there (if asked) if given what they thought was a good enough reason to leave the Valley. I'm not sure what other avenues might be open to the eastern Valley football schools, but it is a potential additional avenue out that the basketball only schools don't have if they get sideways with the MVC.

WSU is the most likely school to leave the Valley and, even though that would be a hit on the Valley, I don't believe the eastern schools wanted anything to do with "western expansion", particularly if WSU was a likely candidate to leave regardless. Some of them may have a little leverage to say they don't want the Dakota schools or a Denver. Going to North Dakota every other year for football is much different than having to do it for all sports. Loyola was perfect. It even has appeal for the Iowa schools. Frankly, the eastern Valley schools may not care that much if WSU left and MSU headed to the Sun Belt. They'd pick off the best, rest of the Horizon and go on their happy way and do a lot of shorter bus trips.

I see. This is kind of depressing.

[ripemupshocks]

Interesting thought. I don't pay any attention at all to MVC football, so I am curious how adding LoChic helped prevent MVC football schools from getting squirrelly?

I think it had more to do with "where" the Valley was going to expand, than whether that new school had football. The MAC, an FBS conference, has an uneven number of teams. One of Ill St, possibly UNI, and on the outside, SIU, might consider going there (if asked) if given what they thought was a good enough reason to leave the Valley. I'm not sure what other avenues might be open to the eastern Valley football schools, but it is a potential additional avenue out that the basketball only schools don't have if they get sideways with the MVC.

WSU is the most likely school to leave the Valley and, even though that would be a hit on the Valley, I don't believe the eastern schools wanted anything to do with "western expansion", particularly if WSU was a likely candidate to leave regardless. Some of them may have a little leverage to say they don't want the Dakota schools or a Denver. Going to North Dakota every other year for football is much different than having to do it for all sports. Loyola was perfect. It even has appeal for the Iowa schools. Frankly, the eastern Valley schools may not care that much if WSU left and MSU headed to the Sun Belt. They'd pick off the best, rest of the Horizon and go on their happy way and do a lot of shorter bus trips.

I'm not sure ISU-r, ISU-b, MSU or SIU really have any options for leaving. They just don't bring anything to the table in football that an FBS conference really needs. Maybe UNI could get into a lower level FBS conference because they've been semi-successful in both football and basketball. The Sun Belt or CUSA would be a step up in football, but a big step down in basketball. And the travel would be murder. As you said the MAC is really the only option. Travel would work. But the MAC is at 12 schools for basketball now. And like the other conferences, it would be a big step down in basketball. I really think the sh*tty football that is played by those MVC schools is nothing but an anchor that could potentially drag their athletic departments down to a much lower ranked basketball conference than the MVC. Now, after having said all that, the only true direction to look for a new basketball member was east. That's because there is no western school worth persuing that might be interested in the MVC, except maybe New Mexico State (independent in football and a really bad WAC in basketball), but I think they're holding out for the MWC.

Speaking strictly in terms of basketball; I believe WSU will continue to pull up the rest of the MVC. If WSU leaves the MVC, there is NO doubt, it WILL be for a better conference. I can even see BU maybe getting a chance to move up to the A10 at some point. And that is because neither of those athletic departments has sh*tty football that could pull them down to something worse than the MVC.

So in other words, I don't really think the eastern football playing MVC schools have much of a bargaining chip. The only place they have to go outside of the MVC, is down in basketball, with higher expenses playing FBS football. If they want to leave, good riddance. I think an MVC without schools like WSU and BU looks a hell of a lot worse than an MVC without schools like ISU-r, ISU-b and SIU.


I know it's still early, but current basketball conference RPI rankings from RealTimeRPI:

A10 - 5
MVC - 6
MAC - 13
CUSA - 14
WAC - 16
Sun Belt - 18
Horizon - 19