Sharing Arch Madness?

[Cdizzle]

True, but this thread has already talked about a possible move to Chicago, which the last time I looked, was about another 4 1/2 to 5 hours driving time FURTHER from Wichita than St. Louis. If all the other Valley schools unite, we lose.

I don't understand that logic. All the other Valley schools united are bringing in less money to the tourney than WSU.

[The Mad Hatter]

WSU is cursed by the quality of it's own fans in this deal. We travel really, really well as a fanbase, so when an event is held far away from Wichita, WSU fans still show up in force. WSU may bring in more money to the MVC tournament than the other schools combined, but we are also far less likely to see a major attendance dropoff from our fans if the tournament isn't in our backyard, which is not true of most of the other schools.

[Cdizzle]

WSU is cursed by the quality of it's own fans in this deal. We travel really, really well as a fanbase, so when an event is held far away from Wichita, WSU fans still show up in force. WSU may bring in more money to the MVC tournament than the other schools combined, but we are also far less likely to see a major attendance dropoff from our fans if the tournament isn't in our backyard, which is not true of most of the other schools.

Agree and Agree. The powers that be would never tell WSU fans not to go to the MVC tournament. They COULD tell WSU fans to save their money for the real tournament.

[Kung Wu]

It's time to go all Texas on the MVC and start laying the smack down. If they push for Chicago, we need to force the league to split the conference into two divisions using the promotional system.

[Shox21]

WSU is cursed by the quality of it's own fans in this deal. We travel really, really well as a fanbase, so when an event is held far away from Wichita, WSU fans still show up in force. WSU may bring in more money to the MVC tournament than the other schools combined, but we are also far less likely to see a major attendance dropoff from our fans if the tournament isn't in our backyard, which is not true of most of the other schools.

Thank you Hatter. You said it more succinctly than I did. You got my point across better than I did. Other fanbases don't travel as well even when the tournament is practically in their back yard. I could see that Elgin would rather fight with one school (WSU) even if it is the one with the largest contingent of fans attending the tournament than fight with the other 9 schools that, united together, may want the tournament to either stay put in St. Louis or go to Chicago (and definitely not move to KC). With Creighton and their fanbase having left, it took the other half of any bargaining power WSU may have had.

[60Shock]

And the solution is to get out of this blasted conference.

If only someone wanted us!

[Rlh04d]

WSU is cursed by the quality of it's own fans in this deal. We travel really, really well as a fanbase, so when an event is held far away from Wichita, WSU fans still show up in force. WSU may bring in more money to the MVC tournament than the other schools combined, but we are also far less likely to see a major attendance dropoff from our fans if the tournament isn't in our backyard, which is not true of most of the other schools.

Yep. And as such, they could probably move it to Chicago without losing much from WSU and gaining from the other schools.

We have very little bargaining power in that sense, because our fans are so much better than those of other schools.

If we could organize a boycott, though, that would return the power to us by proving our fans won't just travel regardless of what they do to us. I like the "save your money for the real tournament" line as a boycott slogan ;)

[The Mad Hatter]

Yep. And as such, they could probably move it to Chicago without losing much from WSU and gaining from the other schools.

We have very little bargaining power in that sense, because our fans are so much better than those of other schools.

If we could organize a boycott, though, that would return the power to us by proving our fans won't just travel regardless of what they do to us. I like the "save your money for the real tournament" line as a boycott slogan ;)

But the MVC admins knows that it probably won't happen because WSU has loyal fans who know are unlikely to participate in a boycott that would penalize the team in terms of the fan support they received at the MVC tourney.

We have potential power because we are a good fan base, but we lose that power because a good fanbase probably would not use their power if it meant having to not be there for their team.

[ShockTalk]

But the MVC admins knows that it probably won't happen because WSU has loyal fans who know are unlikely to participate in a boycott that would penalize the team in terms of the fan support they received at the MVC tourney.

We have potential power because we are a good fan base, but we lose that power because a good fanbase probably would not use their power if it meant having to not be there for their team.

Dam* Catch 22!

[Rlh04d]

But the MVC admins knows that it probably won't happen because WSU has loyal fans who know are unlikely to participate in a boycott that would penalize the team in terms of the fan support they received at the MVC tourney.

We have potential power because we are a good fan base, but we lose that power because a good fanbase probably would not use their power if it meant having to not be there for their team.

It's a matter of potentially harming the team for one season or potentially harming the program for multiple seasons.

Or supporting the team but hurting the program. Hurting the team to support the program. Short term versus long term.

[The Mad Hatter]

It's a matter of potentially harming the team for one season or potentially harming the program for multiple seasons.

Or supporting the team but hurting the program. Hurting the team to support the program. Short term versus long term.

While I don't disagree with the theory of the idea of a boycott at one level, there are three issues:

1. Would the MVC recognize it as a boycott that would give them a solid reason to put the tourney in a place like KC, or would they just use it to assert that WSU fans aren't invested in supporting the league and actually give us less consideration than before (either out of ignorance or vindictiveness)? The MVC has been awfully insistent upon hosting tournament championships for baseball and volleyball outside of Wichita in spite of the overwhelming difference in income they would receive by putting it here, so who knows whether they would actually do the financially intelligent thing in the face of a boycott.

2. While it may be true that there are long term benefits, actually convincing people to not follow their hearts if they love the team is a tough thing. This is especially true when considering the emotional connection to seniors, whom fans would feel bad leaving without support in order to hopefully achieve ends that only kick in after those seniors graduate.

3. Even though WSU has the biggest fan contingent in the Valley, I'm not sure you can throw your weight around (ala Texas) without the belief on the part of the other schools that A) you could leave and B) their co-operation would prevent you from doing so. As long as the other schools know you aren't going anywhere, they can hold the line against a boycott, plus it inspires ill will with the other schools. So the other schools would need to know that we could go to another conference if we wanted to. While there may be problems with finding another conference, I think the real problem for us is part B of the equation. I think that if we find another conference option that fits, we are going to go regardless of how many concessions the Valley makes to us.

I think that the MVC knows that either we won't find another conference, in which case they don't need to cave to our demands because we are unlikely keep up a boycott over the long term or that we would so prefer to be in a different conference that no concessions on their part would prevent us from moving on when the situation presented itself, in which case why bother giving power to a school that would leave no matter what you did to appease them.

[Kung Wu]

But the MVC admins knows that it probably won't happen because WSU has loyal fans who know are unlikely to participate in a boycott that would penalize the team in terms of the fan support they received at the MVC tourney.

We have potential power because we are a good fan base, but we lose that power because a good fanbase probably would not use their power if it meant having to not be there for their team.

WSU fans won't travel to Chicago if the Shox aren't playing there. How sweet would it be if the TEAM led the boycott? It would be a gutsy move and could end up with some nasty backlash though. Never happen, but a fun thought exercise anyway.

[Rlh04d]

WSU fans won't travel to Chicago if the Shox aren't playing there. How sweet would it be if the TEAM led the boycott? It would be a gutsy move and could end up with some nasty backlash though. Never happen, but a fun thought exercise anyway.

Yeah, I don't see an institutional boycott ever happening. That would lead to long term problems with the conference.

If there was a fan driven boycott that the school had no involvement with, I think that would be different. Obviously we have no power as far as realignment goes, for the reasons stated that nothing would keep us here if we had an option... but I do think we could influence the location of the tournament with ticket sales, without repercussions to the program politically.

I don't know if you could ever convince most fans to participate, though.

[60Shock]

I'm not for a boycott at all because it doesn't settle anything and just what tremendous concessions would we game.

Just how much money do we save going going to St. Louis versus Chicago?

Is that amount worth all the turmoil and ill feelings created?

And the big negative, just how would a move like this sit with ANY conference that might consider offering a future invitation?

Not withstanding how the NCAA might possibly look at a move such as this. Obviously, if we weren't a Golden lock (top 10 ranking), is it possible they could take this little manuver in their selection process? I don't know. Just asking.

[Rlh04d]

I think it's less about the money saved than the conference benefiting the Illinois programs at our expense.

Inevitably a tournament in Chicago would increase the number of fans from Illinois schools and decrease the total from Wichita.

As for the rest, as long as the school wasn't involved, it wouldn't matter.

I don't actually expect this to happen any time soon.