Illinois-Chicago to MVC

[SubGod22]

The best we can do if a mid level team that may be able to compete in the upper half. Taking someone destined to bring up the rear is insane.

[TxShox]

The best we can do if a mid level team that may be able to compete in the upper half. Taking someone destined to bring up the rear is insane.

Iagree. If UMKC, Illinois Chicago, Loyola, etc. join the MVC, the conference will be moving backwards. I understand that these teams get us in to good TV markets, but if nobody in those markets wants to watch the product, what's the good in that? if this is true, I sure hope that Sexton and Bardo are working the backrooms this weekend and have a clandestine plan to get us in to a better situation.

[rjl]

Whoever the Valley adds is going to suck, it's just a matter of how badly. It's perfectly okay to resign yourselves to this fact. Holding out hope for an expansion home run will only lead to frustration.

The true hope for WSU lies in the as-yet-undiscovered escape route to the AAC or MWC. That is our salvation.

This is undeniably true. This is why I have advocated UMKC. At least it's in a city that many WSU fans can travel to, it's in a city that many WSU fans wouuld enjoy travelling to, it's in a location that has many nearby amenities (Westport, Plaza, Brookside, and Waldo all within a few miles), and it just so happens to be within a mile of my house.

I equate it to being able to choose the manner of your own execution.

[Kung Wu]

I keep staring at UIC trying to think how you might pronounce that and all I can come up with is "yick".

[GoldenEagle]

That spreadsheet leaves out our most recent NCAA bid before this year (2003-2004), not that it matters. The 2008-2009 year was a complete anomaly for us, due to 2 solid players leaving the program just before the school year started, not allowing us to fill their roles. One left for a European contract after his SO year, and the other went psycho and transferred to Evansville (Bryan Bouchie), to see his career fizzle out, after putting up 20+ points on Jon Brockman of Washington. Speaking of which, that spreadsheet also misses some of our Power 6 wins: Washington in that CBI tournament win 2007-2008 (on their court), and a few others. Though not a Power 6 conference, we have beaten Butler 4 times in a row, including once during their title game run. We would initially be a mid-level MVC team, whereas UIC and Loyola would be bottom dwellers until they pick up their recruiting.

Only regular season wins and losses are counted. I didn't want to inflate the number of losses with one and done NCAA teams. If you are able to find more than one regular season Power 6 win over that period I will add it. I don't see any wins in Lawrence over KU like ORU had.

[ValpoTX]

A good win on paper indeed. But you also have to remember that they were missing some of their top players for that game :smile-new:. Still, beating Kansas at their place is a good win even without their better players.

Putting aside my dislike of ORU since I played/lost against them each year in baseball, out of all the options mentioned in the media, ORU and Valpo would be the best overall gets available. The other schools won't ever really be supported in their communities, regardless of who they are playing (UIC, Loyola, Belmont, UMKC, etc). SLU and Dayton will be going to the New Big East, they are just waiting until the following season to do so as others have mentioned. Therefore, it is stay at 9 for the MVC, or add schools that will actually be able to compete.

[RoyalShock]

Of the schools mentioned so far, the only one I have any hope of being able to gain some of its TV market is ORU. I don't ever see Chicago caring about UIC, Loyola, or Valpo, KC about UMKC or Nashville about Belmont.

I'm not sure what Belmont has coming back, but Murray is the only one I envision coming in and not being the #10 team for at least a few years.

Using that spreadsheet, I would rank those teams in terms of desirability as:

Murray St.
ORU
UIC
Valpo
Belmont
Loyola
UMKC

[GoldenEagle]

A good win on paper indeed. But you also have to remember that they were missing some of their top players for that game :smile-new:. Still, beating Kansas at their place is a good win even without their better players.

Putting aside my dislike of ORU since I played/lost against them each year in baseball, out of all the options mentioned in the media, ORU and Valpo would be the best overall gets available. The other schools won't ever really be supported in their communities, regardless of who they are playing (UIC, Loyola, Belmont, UMKC, etc). SLU and Dayton will be going to the New Big East, they are just waiting until the following season to do so as others have mentioned. Therefore, it is stay at 9 for the MVC, or add schools that will actually be able to compete.

Kansas was missing zero players in that game. Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers, Russel Robinson, Julian Wright, Sherron Collins, Darrnell Jackson, Darrell Arther all played. Nice try though.

[ValpoTX]

I guess you are right. I wasn't trying to be a punk. I just remember that ORU had beaten a named team in the last few years, but that team had a few injuries/illnesses. I thought it was Kansas, but it was obviously someone else. I haven't followed ORU since we left the Mid-Con, so only hear about news relating to them on ESPN when they play the named teams.

[Rlh04d]

The MWC was very close to becoming relevant in football. Before Utah and TCU left, they were on track to become get a BCS automatic bid. Of course the BCS is done now and MWC basketball is better than football. Just a few years ago it looked like it could have been very different.

They were. But their best programs left and the automatic bid is gone now. The only reason to cling to football when the circumstances have changed so drastically is stubbornness.

The MWC's only hope now is that Boise State can dominate the conference to such a degree that they can get into the playoffs.

[SubGod22]

Of the schools mentioned so far, the only one I have any hope of being able to gain some of its TV market is ORU. I don't ever see Chicago caring about UIC, Loyola, or Valpo, KC about UMKC or Nashville about Belmont.

I'm not sure what Belmont has coming back, but Murray is the only one I envision coming in and not being the #10 team for at least a few years.

Using that spreadsheet, I would rank those teams in terms of desirability as:

Murray St.
ORU
UIC
Valpo
Belmont
Loyola
UMKC

Can't argue with that order. Murray gets decent support and has a pretty solid product. Downsides would be a nonexistent market and apparently the football thing could be an issue on the MVFC side of things.

ORU has a history of some success and decent attendance. Things haven't been pretty recently, but it hasn't been that long. Decent market and I know we recruit OK.

UIC is in a large city with lots of talent. I do think the Flames have a little potential with the right administration/coaching staff and funding. Can that happen though? Will never be a major player but IF they could start winning, they'd get a small piece of the pie.

Valpo has a solid history and okay attendance. Not sure how much upside they have. Not trying to be a dick, seriously don't know that much about them. UIC has a better chance of relevance in Chicago.

Belmont is a solid program under Byrd. Can that continue when he's gone? Great city in Nashville but nobody cares. I'm sure playing in the MVC would help some, but not that much. 2k? Yuck.

Loyola....I'm not sure if I'd put them in front of UMKC or not. Both are horrible. I think UMKC could have more potential in the long run if they can ever get a commitment from those who run the University. Also an area that a number of schools can recruit. Loyola.... I'd rather have UIC.

[ValpoTX]

Our fans are realistic about where we would rank on most MVC fan's minds, so it is not a dick thing to do to put us 4th. Unless you watch what we have been doing, you don't notice us unless we are on ESPN/ESPN2 (several times this year, I think 6-7) or make the tourney and they do all the Bryce Drew stuff. Someone on our board stated that NW Indiana has 800,000 people, but most are IU/Purdue/Notre Dame fans. We can never claim to be the top dog in our area for this reason, unlike how my MBA alma mater can in Fort Worth (TCU).

Any of the 3 you list above us would be fine additions, except I really have to question UIC as ever being relevant in Chicago. The 'top' college teams in Chicago are Depaul and Northwestern, and they are pitiful. Even when they are doing well, the city just does not care about college basketball at this point. UIC has solid facilities, but will they ever be able to produce on the court when in such a great recruiting ground? I am not sure that they can based on our 6 years in the HL playing against them, but maybe the MVC would change that. I feel that overall, we would compete well in the MVC if invited/accepted, but initially would be more mid-level. We have beaten some decent MVC teams in the past, to show that we are not a push-over (Missouri State when they were an at-large candidate a few year's back, in the BracketBuster game).

[ValpoTX]

You can also look at that Missouri State game as giving you a better idea of attendance to expect from VU home games against better quality MVC teams (5,328, http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbaske...po-02-19-2011/). When you play the teams we do in the past (Mid-Con/Summit, HL), it is hard to get the local fan base excited about an IUPUI, UMKC, Cleveland State, UIC, Milwaukee, etc. When we played against ORU and Butler at home, those were always packed, but it is hard to get anyone excited to play the other teams in conference. Detroit is starting to become our new rival to replace Butler, but I imagine that most MVC teams would still draw better for us.

[SubGod22]

What's the capacity of your facility at Valpo?

[ValpoTX]

It is that 5,328 number, though I think they knocked it down to 5,250 in the last few years. The actual seating is 5,000, but we have an ugly indoor track thing that goes around the mezzannine area that people will stand over the railings. It was built in the 1980's, and was engineered to allow for future changes to the design and capacity. I believe someone told me that it can get up to 6,500-7,000 in capacity if they knock out a wall and build more of a bowl. That would actually be an ideal number for us to get to, until we hopefully start having more success against BCS programs.

I can obviously admit that though our game atmosphere is electric when packed, our gym is an old style one that would need updating. That is something we would have to promise to the MVC folks, in updating our gym into a modern arena, and also building the new baseball stadium we have in our 10-20 year strategic plan for the university. We started towards the direction in adding video boards to the scoreboard hanging at mid-court, but really need a reconfiguration to stay competitive in a confernece like the MVC.