Hey Wichita State, wanna join us in the A-10?

[Rlh04d]

I don't understand any reason for us to not join the A-10 if Saint Louis and Dayton are staying.

As I'm trying to point out in that thread about the Valley's economics, the best scenario for a conference is to maximize the number of NCAA tournament teams.

Obviously travel costs would be expanded, but the television prospects for the A-10 are far better with Wichita State as a member. This might need to be something that's negotiated directly with a television carrier -- how much are you willing to give us now, how much are you willing to give us if we add Wichita State and Bradley.

I think you also have to take into account the leverage this gives the A-10 for membership choices in the future. If the A-10 restricts itself to the east coast, there are only so many schools to replace schools that leave in the future, which I'm sure you're already seeing now in looking at what teams there are to expand to there (although Davidson isn't a bad choice). By shoring up access to the midwest, that leaves the A-10 with the ability to raid numerous other conferences for members. The pecking order would be set regarding the Valley, which would give the A-10 their choice of Valley, Horizon, etc. members. There might not be many great options now, but hey ... if Loyola DOES end up becoming good in 10 years like I think they might be, it'd be pretty funny to see the A-10 just snatch them after the Valley got them to improve their basketball product. Whatever Valley team stepped up to take over the conference in our absence would be an expansion option in the future. Teams like Detroit and others in major markets that have potential that they aren't reaching are firmly in the geographic footprint for future expansion if they do meet their potential.

[DistrictBaller]

Davidson is a fine addition from an academics perspective. Really good school that is pretty selective (they would not take me in fact). I wonder about their basketball program post-Bob McKillop. I really think he is top 2-3 in the entire country at X-Oing. I have to think that there will be a decline when he retires. Their other athletic programs are just kind of meh. They aren't that much better of an addition for the A10 than Loyola was for the Valley.

Selfishly I would love WSU to stay in the Valley. I think that it is a much better baseball league and that is the heart of the athletic program in many ways. They just have more in common institutionally with our members than yours in the A10 and the geographically is staggering in the A10. SLU made it work but those student athletes miss a ton of class going out to Olean, NY and what not.

If you truly think Davidson isn't a better add for the A-10 than Loyola is for the MVC, I'm probably in the wrong place.

[Kung Wu]

Thats why MVC=West Division and A10=East Division with a promotion/relegation system deciding interdivisional matchups would turn into one of the best conferences in the country.

[The Mad Hatter]

If you truly think Davidson isn't a better add for the A-10 than Loyola is for the MVC, I'm probably in the wrong place.

Once again, Lusking is a Missouri State fan, not one of ours.

@_kai_: we have a lot of posters marked as being fans of other schools in their profile, can we get that for LuskingforGuttin?

[LuskingforGuttin]

If you truly think Davidson isn't a better add for the A-10 than Loyola is for the MVC, I'm probably in the wrong place.

As others have indicated I am not a Wichita State fan. I am a Missouri State fan. So I'm like the Old Dominion to your VCU or something like that. Regardless the views expressed by me do not necessarily reflect the views of WSU or their fans. Got that disclaimer out.

I think Davidson is terrific, don't get me wrong. I just read up some today on Loyola and they aren't half bad themselves. Of course with the current state of affairs Davidson looks like a much better addition, but in the next decade I'm not sure that it will be so blantantly obvious.

[Aargh]

This could work. Replacing Butler with WSU would look like an absolutely brilliant move.

Davidson is a solid add. Consistent top-100 rpi team.

[RoyalShock]

I'm just not wild about being an extreme geographic outlier. I think we can all reasonably agree that the odds of SLU and Dayton not joining the Big East are slim. At least in the MWC we'd be 1-2 states away from Air Force, Colorado St., Wyoming and New Mexico. The AAC would have Tulsa, SMU, Houston and Memphis. In the future A-10 our closest conference mates would be more than one day's drive away. No thanks.

Now if three of our MVC brethren (BU, SIU, MSU) went with us to the A-10, I could go for that.

[ShockTalk]

I don't understand any reason for us to not join the A-10 if Saint Louis and Dayton are staying.

As I'm trying to point out in that thread about the Valley's economics, the best scenario for a conference is to maximize the number of NCAA tournament teams.

Obviously travel costs would be expanded, but the television prospects for the A-10 are far better with Wichita State as a member. This might need to be something that's negotiated directly with a television carrier -- how much are you willing to give us now, how much are you willing to give us if we add Wichita State and Bradley.

I think you also have to take into account the leverage this gives the A-10 for membership choices in the future. If the A-10 restricts itself to the east coast, there are only so many schools to replace schools that leave in the future, which I'm sure you're already seeing now in looking at what teams there are to expand to there (although Davidson isn't a bad choice). By shoring up access to the midwest, that leaves the A-10 with the ability to raid numerous other conferences for members. The pecking order would be set regarding the Valley, which would give the A-10 their choice of Valley, Horizon, etc. members. There might not be many great options now, but hey ... if Loyola DOES end up becoming good in 10 years like I think they might be, it'd be pretty funny to see the A-10 just snatch them after the Valley got them to improve their basketball product. Whatever Valley team stepped up to take over the conference in our absence would be an expansion option in the future. Teams like Detroit and others in major markets that have potential that they aren't reaching are firmly in the geographic footprint for future expansion if they do meet their potential.

Problems with the A-10 as far as WSU is concerned: 1) As many members as the A-10 has, it needs to have 2 divisions, particularly if WSU is involved. Unbalanced schedules are just not right and without divisions, travel for WSU would be very tough. I've never understood why so many here believe traveling east is easier on a team than going west for WSU. You travel east, the players loose an hour, whether it's sleep, practice time, whatever. They go west, they gain an hour or two. It may be harder on the players coming back and for classes, but not for playing games. 2) Just what kind of "guarantee" could the A-10 get that St Louis and Dayton will stay put, even for more than one year......none. Then there is nobody even remotely close. Maybe they add a couple of others, maybe they don't.

Problem in general: They have too many bottomfeeders! I may be off a little, but over the last 15 years the Valley has had 2 teams lose 20 games or more 4 times. No one else has done it more than 2. In the A-10, they have 4 teams that have lost 20 or more games 4, 5, 6, and 7 times.

Frankly the best conference solution won't happen: WSU, UNI, Ill St, SIU, BU, and MSU (maybe one more) from the Valley and VCU, Richmond, St Joe's, GW, George Mason, and Rhode Island (maybe one or two more) from the A-10 assuming Dayton and St Louis leave. If they don't, make them the other two adds for 14 total teams. Have two divisions, basically what is now the Valley and A-10 with a little adjustment. Even travel for the Sisters of the Poor wouldn't be bad. This league would be a 3-5 bid league each year.

No doubt, the Valley adding Loyola #3 has made me soften my opinion about joining the A-10.

[Rlh04d]

I'm just not wild about being an extreme geographic outlier. I think we can all reasonably agree that the odds of SLU and Dayton not joining the Big East are slim. At least in the MWC we'd be 1-2 states away from Air Force, Colorado St., Wyoming and New Mexico. The AAC would have Tulsa, SMU, Houston and Memphis. In the future A-10 our closest conference mates would be more than one day's drive away. No thanks.

Now if three of our MVC brethren (BU, SIU, MSU) went with us to the A-10, I could go for that.

SLU and Dayton are there now. Were they to ever leave, they could easily be replaced by Valley teams. I don't see the problem there.

[Rlh04d]

Frankly the best conference solution won't happen: WSU, UNI, Ill St, SIU, BU, and MSU (maybe one more) from the Valley and VCU, Richmond, St Joe's, GW, George Mason, and Rhode Island (maybe one or two more) from the A-10 assuming Dayton and St Louis leave. If they don't, make them the other two adds for 14 total teams. Have two divisions, basically what is now the Valley and A-10 with a little adjustment. Even travel for the Sisters of the Poor wouldn't be bad. This league would be a 3-5 bid league each year.

I've long thought that was the best case scenario for both of us. Unfortunately there are far too many things required for it to ever work.

I personally don't think travel east is that big of a deal. One hour isn't really a concern to me.

As for what guarantee they can give about Saint Louis and Dayton ... you know, probably none. But I'm sure we could make them guarantee that if those two did leave, we would replace them with two Valley teams.

[BenWSU]

I'm just not wild about being an extreme geographic outlier.

Don't forget we're not too far away to be part of the SEC West division if they're interested in expanding

[wushock27]

No chance without football... That's all the SEC is now! Football and baseball drive it...

[BenWSU]

No chance without football... That's all the SEC is now! Football and baseball drive it...

Could've had football team with all the money we've made for the valley

[Rlh04d]

Could've had football team with all the money we've made for the valley

Speaking of making money for the Valley that we could use ourselves, doesn't Gonzaga have some kind of contract with the WCC where they keep a significant portion of their NCAA tournament shares?

How do we get in on that?

[Capitol Shock II]

Well it sounds like at least there are a few options out there for us. We can remain a big fish in a small pond or possibly the A-10 or maybe even replacing Tulsa in Conference USA?