Shockers at Redbirds Game Thread

[jdmee]

What? Running towards it? Who in their right mind runs into a flying karate kick?

I also saw the Cotton was flopping on the play and was falling before the kick even got to him.

What? Falling away from a flying side kick? Who in their right mind would fall away from a size 18 flying side kick? Oh, that's right EVERYONE.

[rZ]

What? Running towards it? Who in their right mind runs into a flying karate kick?

Every bad guy in a Jean-Claud Van Damme movie!

[WuDrWu]

And Coleby. And Andrew Wiggins would also be a nice addition.

Things almost always change, but with Fred, Evan, Ron, Cle and Kadeem starting and Tekele, Nick, Jake and CJ coming off the bench, that's a formidable 9 that's proven difficult for the Valley to keep at an arm's length. And I am taking into account ZERO newcomers to D1, such as Derail who will torch people next year at times.

[RoyalShock]

According to Jackie Carmichael, he was protecting himself after he secured the rebound. What a punk***.......

http://o1.stretchinternet.com:1935/o.../playlist.m3u8

I actually agree with that. I don't believe he had any intent to kick Cotton. It would be insanely stupid, especially for a 5th-year senior who, as far as I can tell, isn't known for that type of play. I think it was a reflex reaction, just like when a player uses his elbows to "clear" an annoying defender after a rebound. Most of the time, it's a spur-of-the-moment reflex. However, it's still something you can't do and should rightly be called a flagrant foul.

[Kung Wu]

Things almost always change, but with Fred, Evan, Ron, Cle and Kadeem starting and Tekele, Nick, Jake and CJ coming off the bench, that's a formidable 9 that's proven difficult for the Valley to keep at an arm's length. And I am taking into account ZERO newcomers to D1, such as Derail who will torch people next year at times.

I know it didn't happen this year ... but I can't imagine the state of our program if Cotton isn't a starter his junior and senior year. That just blows my mind.

[Aargh]

They might play cleaner at least. They won't be bad at all and could very well be better. It is hard telling what a team will do after losing seniors. A perfect example is our team this year. None of us figured it would be going like it has and is.

I certainly didn't figure it would be going like it has or is. I thought the Shox would close out Valley play at about 16 -2.

[1972Shocker]

There are reasons we have these flagrant foul rules on the books. Perhaps none more compelling than The Punch. The decking of Rudy Tomjonavich by Kermit Washington in a 1977 NBA Game.

On that night, Washington said that he just reacted, throwing the punch without knowing who was coming toward him. "I saw something from the corner of my eye — it was Rudy running at me 100 miles an hour," Washington said. "And I swung and that was a mistake that I made in judgment."

Tomjanovich, who crumpled to the floor, almost died that night of injuries that were akin to being thrown from a car going 50 miles per hour. His skull was dislocated and spinal fluid was leaking from his brain. He recalled being able to taste the fluid in his mouth.

Carmichael clearly made a mistake. A bad decision made in the heat of an intense game. Fortunately, it did not result in any serious injury. You can never turn the clock back on those brain cramps that go wrong (check that with Ben Christenson). From all accounts Carmichael is a good guy. He is actually fortunate that no real physical damage was inflicted. He is a big, strong man. It is one thing recovering from a technical foul call. Something totally different recovering from a Tomjonavich or Christenson kind of incident.

The last thing that needs to happen at this point is for emotions to takeover and result in possible more severe unintended consequences in the future.

[shockrah]

They are also saying that it is fine to kung fu kick because Jackie does it a lot when guys aren't around. With their logic, maybe Marshall should just tell our players to randomly punch the air and when one of those punches eventually connects with the face of a ISU player, we can use Redbird Logic (patent pending) to say:

A. Our guys always make punching motions. Clearly no intent.
B. The Illinois State player was running into the punch. Must be his fault.

That's just too damned funny!

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I actually agree with that. I don't believe he had any intent to kick Cotton. It would be insanely stupid, especially for a 5th-year senior who, as far as I can tell, isn't known for that type of play. I think it was a reflex reaction, just like when a player uses his elbows to "clear" an annoying defender after a rebound. Most of the time, it's a spur-of-the-moment reflex. However, it's still something you can't do and should rightly be called a flagrant foul.

I agree with this. I've seen other players go for rebounds with their legs flailing around. But there's something wrong in your head to not train yourself to stop doing that, because these types of incidents could happen because of it. The refs had every right to call that a Flagrant 1, and why it wasn't called immediately by the Stevie Wonder ref looking right the hell at it is beyond me.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I know it didn't happen this year ... but I can't imagine the state of our program if Cotton isn't a starter his junior and senior year. That just blows my mind.

Cotton will start next year. Book it!


T


...:cool:

[ShockerPrez]

Cotton will start next year. Book it!


T


...:cool:

If he can shoot. If not Id give the nod to Baker. Cant have a 2 guard that cant shoot starting IMO.

[1972Shocker]

Again, I don't put much stock into who starts and hope that doesn't become a critical issue for the Shocks.

As far as shooting goes Tekele is shooting 42% from the field (29.0% from 3) after a very slow start. Ron shot 36.5% and 32.0% before his injury. Perhaps if shooting is the key criteria Rian Holland will be the starter at the 2 (ain't happenin').

As we all know Tekele is a ferocious defender capable of guarding anyone from a quick point guard to a 6'8" small forward. Not only is he capable of it he has done it. Tekele is also a very good rebounder for his size.

The good thing is that Ron is also a good defender and a decent rebounder from his position. I don't mind having a Tekele Baker or a Ron Cotton. I expect both to improve their shooting efficiency next year.

Question: If Tekele Cotton is not the MVP Defensive Player of the Year this year, then who is? Carmichael? Echenique? Simms-Edwards? Tekele gets my vote, which unfortunatley doesn't count for anything.

[newshock1234]

who the hell is wushocker91 on redbirdfan.net. Who ever you are you should be ashamed of yourself

[BRocca]

From an ISU fan

First time poster to your site. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in...

Ninja Jackie - I am completely fine with this being what it was. However, in no way was it intentional. Jackie often kicks a leg for a rebound. I have no idea why, but he does. This was just the first time someone was in his way. The replay from under the hoop best illustrates that it wasn't on purpose. His leg had already started extending when his head and eyes were tilted up towards the ball. Immediately after, he saw the WSU player and bent his leg back, but it was too late. Not on purpose, but it did happen and no sense arguing it being a no call. Any fan base would be upset if that happened to their team and would want their coach to call for a replay. Jackie has never been even rumored to be a dirty player by any one, even other fans. Even our last coach tried to get him to be meaner. This was just an unfortunate ending to one of his kicking rebounds. It was bound to happen one day I guess.

Refs - seriously, how often do both teams walk away saying "That was a really good officiated game"? It never happens. I think they got it wrong saying that the contact was made above the shoulders and they got it wrong when they gave the wrong guy the free throws.

ISU still had a chance. The refs almost never cause a tem to lose. One play almost never causes a team to lose. There are always numerous things that could have been done differently.

After the game - teams/coaches/fans should have handled it better. Plenty of blame to go around there. I love the rivalry these teams have been having lately. Keep the game and atmosphere clean and play hard. May the better team win.

I really don't have an issue with your players. And all fan bases have the guys that think their team does no wrong. For the most part I feel we have the best 2 fan bases in the league. I don't like your coach, but everyone has an opposing player/coach they don't like. Mine just happens to be yours. Sorry.

Anyway, I hope to hell we meet again in STL. Would be a very good matchup.

[Anthroshock]

The replay from under the hoop best illustrates that it wasn't on purpose. His leg had already started extending when his head and eyes were tilted up towards the ball. Immediately after, he saw the WSU player and bent his leg back, but it was too late.

He already had the ball gathered and wrapped up before he kicked his leg while looking at Cotton. It was intentional and should have been a flagrant 2 with a few games of suspension. All the offcial/referree snafus after is just a function of the poor quality of the initial missed call