Monmouth (0-4) at Wichita State (3-0) Game Discussion: Nov 18 (Mon)

[WstateU]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCjwEaAOAlI/?igsh=MXJqNHRkb2t0cXd6NQ==

[Stickboy46]

I wasn’t the first to bring up Brown in the discussion, people on here criticizing Paul Mills as if he doesn’t show enough fire and comparing him to Brown, it’s laughable because Mills is leaps and bounds above Brown when it comes to in game coaching. We won that game due to coaching.

Actually we almost lost that game due to poor coaching. If you come out flat .. that's on the coach.

[Stickboy46]

A lot of opinions being thrown out. Here are some facts.

The second half we shot 70% from 2 and 90% from the free throw line. 8 of our 14 makes from 2 were the result of an assist.
That is a monumental change from the first half.

By the logic of several on here, that credit has to be given to the coaches.

I do think offensively the coaches get a lot of credit for halftime adjustments

Defensively, we gave up 35 pts and that's not counting the roughly 10 FT they missed in the 2nd half (including the front end of some 1 and 1s.

So they get partial credit and an assist from Monmouth

[WuDrWu]

lol what’s that top flight coach doing these days anyway?

Giving props to JP for averaging 30 vs Georgia State and Coastal Carolina (in fairness, pretty amazing stats....combined 19-37, 5-11, 15-18, 8 assists & 1 turnover).

[Atxshoxfan]

A lot of opinions being thrown out. Here are some facts.

The second half we shot 70% from 2 and 90% from the free throw line. 8 of our 14 makes from 2 were the result of an assist.
That is a monumental change from the first half.

By the logic of several on here, that credit has to be given to the coaches.

It doesn't matter. Most don't wants to look at a fat ugly naked chick s, and most don't want to watch ugly basketball. And that was ugly, start to finish.

[ShockRef]

It doesn't matter. Most don't wants to look at a fat ugly naked chick s, and most don't want to watch ugly basketball. And that was ugly, start to finish.

My issue was with consistent effort and intensity.
When WSU got behind 45-38, all of sudden the defensive pressure was turned up and so was overall effort.
Why did it take their backs to the wall and looking at a defeat in the face to motivate the whole team to get their ass in gear?
Playing college basketball is a privilege, not a honored right to the who have the talent to play at a higher level.

I worked a D3 game Saturday night with the 18th nationally ranked team vs a team that was their equal, but not rated.
These guys played their asses off the entire game like it might be the last game they ever play.
The unranked team had a kid hit a 3 point bomb from the corner with 9 seconds left to win it for the unranked team.

They went nuts and dog piled the kid after the other team missed two shots in the last 5 seconds.

That is how the game is to be played each night, regardless of the opponent.
I didn't see the same type of effort for quite a while in last nights game - except from the Monmouth kids.

Time to let it go and get ready for STL Friday night.

That is all.

[WuShock Reaper]

Our free-throw shooting defense was off the charts...

according to: Hoop Tactics

https://hooptactics.net/premium/defense/defsit/defsituationsft1.php#:~:text=On%20free%20throws%2C%20it%20is%20very%20important%20that,up%20in%20elbow%20high%20position%20ready%20to%20rebound.

"On free throws, it is very important that the defenders stand with both feet together and step up the lane (not into the lane). Having the feet together allows the players to step further up the lane. Players must also keep their hands up in elbow high position ready to rebound."

1st Half: 3 of 7 for 42.86%
2nd Half: 3 of 11 for 27.27%

I think we pulled that off just...about...as...best...we...could.

[Aargh]

Every team has off nights. The F4 team's loss to Evansville has already been mentioned. Then there was Louisiana Tech. I don't recall anyone calling for Marshall's a$$ on a platter for those losses. Throw in Alcorn State. You can't expect a team to be hot every night. Every team is going to have off nights.

Evidently it was bad coaching that caused the Shox to go 2/15 from 3. Not counting Washington, the Shox were 0/13. SN'ers are griping about players going to the basket. What do you want them to do when the 3's are clanking off the rim? There are complaints that drivers were trying to go to the basket when there were multiple defenders down there. Where do you think the defenders are going to be when the team is hitting 7% of their 3's, which was the case until Washington hit his second.

Bosnjak would have been double-teamed and triple-teamed if he had been getting the ball anywhere near the basket. There would have been no hesitation to leave players open on the perimeter.

Mills does his a$$-chewing out of view of the public. He has said he's not going to embarrass players in public. Marshall had no hesitation to embarrass players in public. He also had massive turnover before the protal was a factor.

The entire landscape and environment of college ball has changed since Marshall was shaking his wrist on the sidelines. WSU is in a horrible position with the portal. Players who could take WSU to the NCAA tourney will be gone to a power conference after one year. They will be offered multiples of what WSU can pay.

Last night the Shox had 15 assists on 24 made shots. That's an awfully good ratio. It would have been a lot worse if shots at the rim were falling, but they weren't. When 3's aren't falling and shots at the rim aren't falling, it's going to be ugly. It's tough to set up a game plan that compensates for jumpers and shots at the rim not falling.

It's easy to criticize, especially when that criticism falls into the category of "See, I was right, we shouldn't have hired Mills". Well, we did. Patting yourself on the back for being "right" isn't going to do much good.

[WuShock Reaper]

[Kung Wu]

Question: What distinguishes when it's the player's performance vs the coaching vs the circumstances?

[Atxshoxfan]

Question: What distinguishes when it's the player's performance vs the coaching vs the circumstances?

Player: lackluster effort on defense on multiple trips.
..........Poor shot selection on multiple trips
.......... Poor rebounding effort on multiple trips
........... Ball hogging on multiple trips
Coach: doing nothing to correct the above players performance. (ie; not sit them on the bench)
........... Repeating the same failing game plan over and over.
Circumstances: too many variables to list. But some circumstances definitely don't go on a player or a coach.

I'm not anti mills (or players) by any stretch of the imagination. But give me a few more games like last nights, and I may become anti mills. After all it is his job to correct the issues.

[Stickboy46]

It's easy to criticize, especially when that criticism falls into the category of "See, I was right, we shouldn't have hired Mills". Well, we did. Patting yourself on the back for being "right" isn't going to do much good.

Counter point .. its easy to just blame the players when everything goes wrong, then give the coaches credit when it goes right. After all, the players will turn over faster than the coach in this new world.

What we saw last night was a combination of both bad coaching, and bad player performance. If you try to strip the blame from either side .. you are just as bad as the others you are complaining about.

The players made a lot of dumb mistakes ... they took bad shots. They deserve criticism for that.

We came out extremely flat and a game plan that was getting absolutely blown apart on both ends of the court. That's on the coaches. Its also on the coaches that when guards are just flying into 3+ players and chucking up something that doesn't get close, they need to be held accountable for that. I didn't really see any of that last night.

A lot of improve on. Thankfully the first 3 games were not the same as this one, so there is hope they just didn't prepare the way they should have due the opponent. Not ideal .. but still understandable. Just have to hope we don't start to trend downward like last year.

[Stickboy46]

Question: What distinguishes when it's the player's performance vs the coaching vs the circumstances?

Well generally the players performance happens on the court .. unless they are great bench dancer

The coaches gets in trouble if they are on the court so it has to happen on the sidelines

The circumstances are generally up to the admin to make sure the flooring is clean and the temperature is right.

I hope that helps

[shoxrox89]

Question, were you all expecting a 20 point blowout with one of our starters out for the game? Soon as I heard QB was out for the night I knew this one might be ugly. Credit to the coaches for making the adjustments they could with the limited bench they had, we definitely wont be winning any conference championships with Joy playing the 4 though, we are thin at certain positions and it showed last night.

[ShockerFever]

Question, were you all expecting a 20 point blowout with one of our starters out for the game? Soon as I heard QB was out for the night I knew this one might be ugly. Credit to the coaches for making the adjustments they could with the limited bench they had, we definitely wont be winning any conference championships with Joy playing the 4 though, we are thin at certain positions and it showed last night.

If losing 1 starter puts us a couple baskets away from losing to the 330th ranked team in the nation on our home floor, then we are fooked… and that’s on the coaches.

I cannot believe you are actually using that shitty excuse to justify that type of play last night. Absolutely mind boggling.