Gorillas at Shockers: Postgame Discussion

[KC Shox]

Cold...what are you going to say if VCU waxes our arse and EO was par for the course with 5 fouls in 3 minutes to go along with 2 points, 2 rebounds and 3 turnovers? Just curious.

[Kung Wu]

Cold...what are you going to say if VCU waxes our arse and EO was par for the course with 5 fouls in 3 minutes to go along with 2 points, 2 rebounds and 3 turnovers? Just curious.

Our arena is bigger than yours. Neener neener neener. LMAO

[CBB_Fan]

EO will be a nice role player. I predict that at some point, in the next month, Early will replace EO in the starting lineup. It'll be Carl Hall, Early, and Armstead for sure. The wings will be a combo (two) of D Will, Baker, or Wessell.

I think EO is by a fair margin the player on our team with the most defensive impact. It isn't just blocks, it is the shots that are altered that really are important. I think it will be hard to knock him off the starting line-up. If anyone gets knocked off, I think it is Wessel. I know, Wessel had a tremendous game, but he could be a James Harden type player off the bench, and probably will average the same amount of minutes either way. Personally, I like to have guys that can score and bring a lot of energy in my second unit.

[Rlh04d]

Cold...what are you going to say if VCU waxes our arse and EO was par for the course with 5 fouls in 3 minutes to go along with 2 points, 2 rebounds and 3 turnovers? Just curious.

He won't acknowledge the game.

I'd be surprised if VCU doesn't win that game. Remember how WSU looked at the start of last season. I'm confident in WSU being good by the time conference play starts up ... But an experienced, talented VCU team is going to be a very tough test with WSU having such a new lineup. I expect VCU to be a major learning experience.

I wouldn't take too much out of this first game. I would imagine that the newcomers probably played better talent in Juco and state title tournament than they did in that game.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I think EO is by a fair margin the player on our team with the most defensive impact. It isn't just blocks, it is the shots that are altered that really are important. I think it will be hard to knock him off the starting line-up. If anyone gets knocked off, I think it is Wessel. I know, Wessel had a tremendous game, but he could be a James Harden type player off the bench, and probably will average the same amount of minutes either way. Personally, I like to have guys that can score and bring a lot of energy in my second unit.

Agreed on the defensive impact. Everybody remember Aaron Ellis? He started a ton of games and he was a -1 on offense. It was Aaron's defense that earned him the minutes. And I believe that EO will bring a ton more offense than AE could have ever dreamed of.

Cold...what are you going to say if VCU waxes our arse and EO was par for the course with 5 fouls in 3 minutes to go along with 2 points, 2 rebounds and 3 turnovers? Just curious.

I don't know.. What does KU say when it gets beat by a midmajor? I will probably say the same thing.

DistrictBaller, please place Cold off your ignore list. He's not that bad. Plus, I absolutely love the entertaining dialogue between the two of you.

He's not ignoring me. You know how that works. :)

I know EO is your sore spot.

It was a lot of players' first real games. The difference is EO is a senior.

I did concede that he made a couple nice moves late, when the game had been out of reach for about 30 minutes. Stutz may have rushed a few times but he was doing so while pouring in 14 ppg. I hear you on the fact that everybody wanted to be the Man last night and EO wasn't given the ball much. I think a large part of it also was because EO didn't establish clear position. He needs to realize just because he gets the ball down low doesn't mean he has to shoot the ball, and shoot it within 1.6 seconds either. He can pass it back out. He has the physique of a basketball player but he just doesn't seem to "look" like one.

EO's shooting percentage from 2 ft better be higher than 38%. That would even further prove my point on him. And if EO does happen to become a player down low, teams are just going to foul him and he's gonna brick 2 free throws.

You said he's gonna drop 18 points on somebody, not me. 1 game down. 2 more realistic chances ahead of him, starting Saturday. I'd be ecstatic if he scored more than he did this past game.

EO is a senior from Africa that didn't start playing bball until late.

EO established position several times and was denied the ball... by his teammates.

EO needs to get the ball in game situations before he can get a good feel on when to make a move or when to kick it out. Now is the time to feed EO aplenty.

I agree it is entertaining seeing them go back and forth. Mainly because DistrictBaller has stayed pretty civil when responding. Most of cold's puppets (bluebird fans) just explode and go crazy LOL. Kudos to DistrictBaller for giving it right back to Cold. This one has been a pretty good debate!

It's not a debate. I just want him to go away. He reminds me of that GMU poster that hung around and made comments like, "us mid-majors need to stick together". The second a comment like that hits our forum, I'm looking to flush a turd. Wichita State isn't a mid-major and we aren't "sticking together" with GMU or VCU or some other ratty program from the CAA or Sunbelt or wherever. Our program has 3x the resources of a VCU and is in the process of rebuilding a once proud national program. VCU is a Cinderella program with Cinderella facilities, Cinderella arena, Cinderella fanbase etc. Their average attendance over the last couple decades is hilarious. They sell between 1,000-2000 season tickets a year depending on if they are winning. How many season tickets have we sold each year over the last decade? 9,000? As soon as Shaka Khan jumps to a major program, they will turn back into an irrelevant broke-dick pumpkin.


T


...:cool:

[SpanglerFan316]

Agreed on the defensive impact. Everybody remember Aaron Ellis? He started a ton of games and he was a -1 on offense. It was Aaron's defense that earned him the minutes. And I believe that EO will bring a ton more offense than AE could have ever dreamed of.



I don't know.. What does KU say when it gets beat by a midmajor? I will probably say the same thing.



He's not ignoring me. You know how that works. :)



EO is a senior from Africa that didn't start playing bball until late.

EO established position several times and was denied the ball... by his teammates.

EO needs to get the ball in game situations before he can get a good feel on when to make a move or when to kick it out. Now is the time to feed EO aplenty.



It's not a debate. I just want him to go away. He reminds me of that GMU poster that hung around and made comments like, "us mid-majors need to stick together". The second a comment like that hits our forum, I'm looking to flush a turd. Wichita State isn't a mid-major and we aren't "sticking together" with GMU or VCU or some other ratty program from the CAA or Sunbelt or wherever. Our program has 3x the resources of a VCU and is in the process of rebuilding a once proud national program. VCU is a Cinderella program with Cinderella facilities, Cinderella arena, Cinderella fanbase etc. Their average attendance over the last couple decades is hilarious. They sell between 1,000-2000 season tickets a year depending on if they are winning. How many season tickets have we sold each year over the last decade? 9,000? As soon as Shaka Khan jumps to a major program, they will turn back into an irrelevant broke-dick pumpkin.


T


...:cool:

Wichita State isn't a mid-major - I'm 100% with you here. As you say, look at our season tickets, fans, willingness to pay a nationally competitive salary for coaches, etc.

and we aren't "sticking together" with GMU or VCU or some other ratty program from the CAA or Sunbelt or wherever. - VCU made it to the Final Four recently; this deserves respect. If WSU gets a poor coach, the Shocks could take a dive.

[SpanglerFan316]

Thanks for that spanglerfan, that is much better. :D

@ another shocker, I was a baby when Gerald Henderson was doing his thing. I watched some of the bigger Celtics and Pistons games on NBA Classics and videos after the fact.

I agree on Cheeks though, he was better.

You were taking Cold too seriously and taking his bait. It would be better if you had a thicker skin but putting him on Ignore works too. I agree with Cold that WSU does not have a "mid-major" mentality.

[SHOXAAC]

Everybody remember Aaron Ellis? He started a ton of games and he was a -1 on offense. It was Aaron's defense that earned him the minutes. And I believe that EO will bring a ton more offense than AE could have ever dreamed of.

I agree AE was solid on defense, but if you think EO brings more on offense then AE could dream off, then set that alarm and wake up. As a senior AE almost perfected that 15-foot wing shoot that enabled him to shoot about 50% from the field that year. EO has to be 4-feet from the target to even have a chance at a basket. And when he gets players taller than 6-6 to guard him that down hill ceiling hook won't cut it.

[SHOXAAC]

EO is a senior from Africa that didn't start playing bball until late.

EO established position several times and was denied the ball... by his teammates.

EO needs to get the ball in game situations before he can get a good feel on when to make a move or when to kick it out. Now is the time to feed EO aplenty.

He didn't start playing basketball till late. Some players have a faster BB learning curve than others. EO just doesn't have those instincts that allow the curve to accelerate. Time has run out on his curve speed to make a big difference.

Did you think there might be a reason teammates don't feed him the ball. Through practice trust is important. My guess is that in practice trust hasn't been earned, therefore in games there are better options than throwing the ball in the post to EO.

Just because EO is in the game doesn't mean the team scraps the whole offense to feed EO a plenty. Feeding EO a plenty isn't and will never be in the game plan.

He has to just keep his hands on the steering wheel when he is in the game and let the game come to him, when appropriate, not at a pace that keeps some SN posters pacified that someday he will turn into Bill Russell.

[shocker22]

Is it just me or did Baker look more like 6'5" than 6'3". He looked taller than Wessell.

[CBB_Fan]

Is it just me or did Baker look more like 6'5" than 6'3". He looked taller than Wessell.

More likely, they are both in the 6'4 range. Look at the difference between Early and either of them. He's more than 3 inches taller than Wessel or Baker.

I could probably tell you how tall they are if I saw them close and in person though. As a person of height myself, I can tell the difference between 6'3" and 6'5" up close.

[DistrictBaller]

You were taking Cold too seriously and taking his bait. It would be better if you had a thicker skin but putting him on Ignore works too. I agree with Cold that WSU does not have a "mid-major" mentality.

Yeah it's easy to get caught up in fact-checking posts but this is probably better.

As for you guys who want me to put him off ignore I appreciate that you enjoy the exchange, but there really is no reason to indulge someone whose only goal is to bait and goad me in order to make me react and say something that will get me run off here. I've dealt with trolls like him several times, and while I've been pretty civil, there comes a point where you let the games and results do the talking and let those who want to flame do what they will. It's not like the subject matter, the results, or the accuracy of the comments make a difference as to whether the approach will change or not. He is what he is and that is a great provocateur who likes to stir the pot. I salute him on being good at what he does.

I think a lot of so-called "mid-majors" don't have a mid-major mentality. A lot of teams in the A-10 don't consider themselves mid-major (actually probably all of them) and more people consider the MVC a mid-major than they do the A-10. When we were in the Metro Conference from '91-'95 it wasn't considered a mid-major conference either. It's really just a matter of perspective. To most people, non-BCS is mid-major with the exception of Gonzaga and Xavier who have elevated themselves above their stations with BCS level success over a long period of time.

I would agree that Wichita State is a non-BCS program that doesn't have a mid-major mentality in how it spends and supports its program, but the lack of consistent major success would make most outside Wichita pause before calling it a major program. I think Marshall is changing that in short order and I could see the Shockers elevating into that category of program that transcends its 'mid-major' conference label in more than just the resources at its disposal. It is a sleeping giant that is clearly being awoken under Gregg Marshall and sustained and consistent national success will certainly change the prevailing perception about Wichita State as a mid-major in short order.

[Kung Wu]

Is it just me or did Baker look more like 6'5" than 6'3". He looked taller than Wessell.

He's so dang good he looked 6'7".

[SpanglerFan316]

Yeah it's easy to get caught up in fact-checking posts but this is probably better.

As for you guys who want me to put him off ignore I appreciate that you enjoy the exchange, but there really is no reason to indulge someone whose only goal is to bait and goad me in order to make me react and say something that will get me run off here. I've dealt with trolls like him several times, and while I've been pretty civil, there comes a point where you let the games and results do the talking and let those who want to flame do what they will. It's not like the subject matter, the results, or the accuracy of the comments make a difference as to whether the approach will change or not. He is what he is and that is a great provocateur who likes to stir the pot. I salute him on being good at what he does.

I think a lot of so-called "mid-majors" don't have a mid-major mentality. A lot of teams in the A-10 don't consider themselves mid-major (actually probably all of them) and more people consider the MVC a mid-major than they do the A-10. When we were in the Metro Conference from '91-'95 it wasn't considered a mid-major conference either. It's really just a matter of perspective. To most people, non-BCS is mid-major with the exception of Gonzaga and Xavier who have elevated themselves above their stations with BCS level success over a long period of time.

I would agree that Wichita State is a non-BCS program that doesn't have a mid-major mentality in how it spends and supports its program, but the lack of consistent major success would make most outside Wichita pause before calling it a major program. I think Marshall is changing that in short order and I could see the Shockers elevating into that category of program that transcends its 'mid-major' conference label in more than just the resources at its disposal. It is a sleeping giant that is clearly being awoken under Gregg Marshall and sustained and consistent national success will certainly change the prevailing perception about Wichita State as a mid-major in short order.

Actually, I don't consider Cold to be a troll. I consider him to be a passionate educator who doesn't have a filter and goes too far at times. In many ways, his basic argument is correct but his passion dominates his posts. I like his posts on other forums which educate and correct other fans but I cringe when he takes it too far. Scoring (debate) points against (sometimes) helpless Valley fans doesn't appeal to me.

[DistrictBaller]

He strikes me as fairly condescending and dismissive which are the hallmarks of a troll and comments that are delivered in such a way do much less to educate as they do to provoke and instigate. Certainly that is a matter of perspective and being a guest on these boards I understand that one must tread much more lightly as a guest than as a regular poster.

All that said, your suggestion was a good one and will lend to better discourse as well as more relevant discussion on the original topics. Tangential bickering meant to do nothing more than distract from the actual discussion and promote e-peen measuring doesn't really appeal to me and I'm sure the majority of readers here share that opinion.