Gorillas at Shockers: Postgame Discussion

[Kung Wu]

You get grouchy when the alarm clock isn't set for the correct time.

Don't let logic get in the way of your next response...in 3...2...1...ding-a-ling-a-ding-dong!!!

You will get the balls AND the shaft at the appointed time. DING DONG!

Don't mind us, carry on!! This is funny stuff.

[SHOXAAC]

Don't mind us, carry on!! This is funny stuff.

On some occasions one just has to create entertainment...Cold is always worth the price of admission...as long as its not more costly than a dried up cow patty in the hot Texas sun.

[DistrictBaller]

I have no idea how they spend that much money. It is possible that the stadium costs are higher because of the location and cost of land and such. They do pay Shaka Smart a million dollar salary I believe, and the coaching assistants probably receive good money. Still, the money gets spent, and that is what matters.

Well Shaka earns about 1.35 million a year which is tops in the Atlantic 10, our assistants have healthy 6-figure salaries, the program charters flights for our road games etc. There's a pretty decent commitment to basketball from our administration and has been increased further now that we've moved to the A-10.

Private support has also increased as a result of our recent success over the last several years with predictably the most noticeable bump coming from the Final Four. They completed a 3.5 million dollar club suite addition to the arena that was privately funded and paid for before the Final Four took place and completed in the off season after it. We're also in the process of fundraising for a new practice facility to replace the old one that will break ground early next year in the price range of 11-15 million dollars according to our AD. We've already had 2 large multi-million dollar gifts towards it from private sponsors in the area.

Obviously there is the advantage of not having football which helps us focus more resources onto the basketball program. VCU basketball is the main game in town with the lack of pro sports in the city (unless you count Nascar) and VCU having a large local alumni base as the largest state school in Virginia depending on the year as it goes back and forth between us and George Mason. University of Richmond is another A-10 program in town but it's always been dwarfed a bit because of their smaller local alumni base as a niche private school drawing largely from the northeast. Another thing that helps is that the state ACC schools have largely been irrelevant for several years between UVA and Virginia Tech.

Our large base as well as our success of late has helped us sell out 18 consecutive games dating back to before the Final Four which is the 6th-longest active streak in the country and we have sold out season tickets for this year as well so there is money coming into the program. We didn't receive any of our Final Four tournament sharing revenue (about 5 million dollars) and that didn't stop us from making the decision to move to the Atlantic 10. We're not swimming in cash per say but we're not paupers either.

Keeping Shaka Smart is a big part of the increased support behind the program. There is no doubt it's all about momentum, and our AD has been good about capitalizing on it and building the program over the last 10 or so seasons. Like any program, you're only as good as your coach and you tank if you make the wrong replacement hire. That said, we've gotten consistently better over the last 3 hires from Jeff Capel, to Anthony Grant to Shaka Smart, so we've been doing well in that regard. We'll see how things go but we feel good about the future with Shaka having turned down a number of payday jobs and recruiting well.

[shockmonster]

I remember in the late 80's or early 90's a coach by the name of (I think) A.J. Barnett took a huge coaching step up from VCU to come to the Missouri Valley Conference and coach Tulsa University. The Shockers owned Tulsa when coached by Barnett. I think that it's great that VCU is having so much success recently.

[DistrictBaller]

That's J.D. Barnett. He left after the '84-'85 season, went to Tulsa and actually came back asking for his job soon after and was told to eat rocks by our AD haha. That didn't end up working out for either party though as both fell off after that. Tulsa did end up with an assistant of his at VCU in Tubby Smith afterwards which went a bit better for them. A lot of our fans wished we had hired Smith after J.D. left, but hindsight is 20-20. Smith still has family in Richmond and comes by often for fundraising events.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Well Shaka earns about 1.35 million a year which is tops in the Atlantic 10, our assistants have healthy 6-figure salaries, the program charters flights for our road games etc. There's a pretty decent commitment to basketball from our administration and has been increased further now that we've moved to the A-10.

Private support has also increased as a result of our recent success over the last several years with predictably the most noticeable bump coming from the Final Four. They completed a 3.5 million dollar club suite addition to the arena that was privately funded and paid for before the Final Four took place and completed in the off season after it. We're also in the process of fundraising for a new practice facility to replace the old one that will break ground early next year in the price range of 11-15 million dollars according to our AD. We've already had 2 large multi-million dollar gifts towards it from private sponsors in the area.

Obviously there is the advantage of not having football which helps us focus more resources onto the basketball program. VCU basketball is the main game in town with the lack of pro sports in the city (unless you count Nascar) and VCU having a large local alumni base as the largest state school in Virginia depending on the year as it goes back and forth between us and George Mason. University of Richmond is another A-10 program in town but it's always been dwarfed a bit because of their smaller local alumni base as a niche private school drawing largely from the northeast. Another thing that helps is that the state ACC schools have largely been irrelevant for several years between UVA and Virginia Tech.

Our large base as well as our success of late has helped us sell out 18 consecutive games dating back to before the Final Four which is the 6th-longest active streak in the country and we have sold out season tickets for this year as well so there is money coming into the program. We didn't receive any of our Final Four tournament sharing revenue (about 5 million dollars) and that didn't stop us from making the decision to move to the Atlantic 10. We're not swimming in cash per say but we're not paupers either.

Keeping Shaka Smart is a big part of the increased support behind the program. There is no doubt it's all about momentum, and our AD has been good about capitalizing on it and building the program over the last 10 or so seasons. Like any program, you're only as good as your coach and you tank if you make the wrong replacement hire. That said, we've gotten consistently better over the last 3 hires from Jeff Capel, to Anthony Grant to Shaka Smart, so we've been doing well in that regard. We'll see how things go but we feel good about the future with Shaka having turned down a number of payday jobs and recruiting well.

You're still selling but...

The added information about your program has changed my opinion. Your administration is doing the right things necessary to move your program to the next level. I wish we could replace a few Valley programs with your school now that I know more. It's interesting to know that you spend the most on basketball in the A10, we spend the most on basketball in the MVC.

The A10 has just as many retard programs as the MVC, it's too bad we can't take the cream of the A10 and MVC and combine them.


T


...:cool:

[SpanglerFan316]

You're still selling but...

The added information about your program has changed my opinion. Your administration is doing the right things necessary to move your program to the next level. I wish we could replace a few Valley programs with your school now that I know more. It's interesting to know that you spend the most on basketball in the A10, we spend the most on basketball in the MVC.

The A10 has just as many retard programs as the MVC, it's too bad we can't take the cream of the A10 and MVC and combine them.


T


...:cool:

I, too, would welcome VCU to the MVC.

[Dave Stalwart]

I'm sitting here salivating over a conference with WSU, CU, Butler, VCU, Temple, Xavier, St. Louis, Illinois State & a couple others... I don't even care...Dayton? Tulsa? Maybe a couple MWC teams. That would be quite the basketball conference. I need to quit thinking about it because it will never happen and it just hurts me.

[CBB_Fan]

Is it reasonable to say that a basketball-first conference constructed from the top of the A10 and MVC would be a major conference? After all, it basically is just the Big East 2.0, and that is considered a major conference. I'm not saying it would be feasible, but it would be interesting to say the least. Wichita State has been trying to find its way into a major conference for a long time, but the lack of football and instate competition have so far prevented it.

On a different note, I would love for VCU and Wichita State to schedule a series extending into 2016. It would be good for both schools I believe.

[DistrictBaller]

I'm sitting here salivating over a conference with WSU, CU, Butler, VCU, Temple, Xavier, St. Louis, Illinois State & a couple others... I don't even care...Dayton? Tulsa? Maybe a couple MWC teams. That would be quite the basketball conference. I need to quit thinking about it because it will never happen and it just hurts me.

It would be a powerhouse although the A-10 isn't too shabby in its current form and several media types have already called it a 7th major conference of sorts for basketball with the additions of Butler and VCU. That's a nice sound byte but the A-10 will take a hit when Temple leaves for Big East after this season. There's no doubt that both leagues have their dregs though. One thing I've appreciated about the A-10 is that nearly everybody, even the dregs, have significant basketball history though. They've all tasted success nationally and want to get back there. That wasn't true in the CAA for sure.

For example, La Salle won a national championship in '54, St. Bonaventure was a powerhouse in the 60's and had Bob Lanier as the national player of the year in 1970, Fordham finished in the top 10 the year after that under Digger Phelps and participated in the first-ever televised basketball game on NBC in 1940, Duquesne went to 2 national championships in the 50's and won the NIT in '55 when it was still a big deal. A lot of those squads that don't look that great now have rich history and have been around a long time like Wichita State has. I know the MVC is similar in rich history, especially before the 80's when it was among the very best conferences in the country, and it hasn't been too shabby after that either. If you love the game, it's hard not to appreciate the history both conferences have to offer.

There's no doubt combining the cream from both conferences would be amazing, but then there's that whole geography thing that gets in the way. It's one thing if you have football TV money which makes conferences that spread out more reasonable, but a basketball conference that far-flung wouldn't be practical. The A-10's TV deal with CBS Sports/NBC Sports/ESPN pays out just over $350,000 per school per year for the next 8. The Big East's TV deal for non-football members is currently 1.7 million per year per school for media rights and NBC Sports is offering 4 million per non-football school per year to get them once their current ESPN deal expires. It's not a level playing field in that regard. Big-time football makes a huge difference in making national conferences like that feasible.

That conference would be awesome in basketball though and a bona fide major conference, no doubt about that. It would be a nightmare for non-revenue sports though and we wouldn't have the clout to command enough TV money to make up the costs for those sports' increased travel expenses. It's very fun to think about though!

[wufan]

Bradley, despite their recent lousy performance, would be a great member as well. Multiple final fours and a financial commitment to athletics. Bradley is currently WSU of the 90s.

[shockmonster]

That's J.D. Barnett. He left after the '84-'85 season, went to Tulsa and actually came back asking for his job soon after and was told to eat rocks by our AD haha.

After being fired from Tulsa, I believe that Barnett had a difficult time landing a job.

[CBB_Fan]

It would be a powerhouse although the A-10 isn't too shabby in its current form and several media types have already called it a 7th major conference of sorts for basketball with the additions of Butler and VCU. That's a nice sound byte but the A-10 will take a hit when Temple leaves for Big East after this season. There's no doubt that both leagues have their dregs though. One thing I've appreciated about the A-10 is that nearly everybody, even the dregs, have significant basketball history though. They've all tasted success nationally and want to get back there. That wasn't true in the CAA for sure.

For example, La Salle won a national championship in '54, St. Bonaventure was a powerhouse in the 60's and had Bob Lanier as the national player of the year in 1970, Fordham finished in the top 10 the year after that under Digger Phelps and participated in the first-ever televised basketball game on NBC in 1940, Duquesne went to 2 national championships in the 50's and won the NIT in '55 when it was still a big deal. A lot of those squads that don't look that great now have rich history and have been around a long time like Wichita State has. I know the MVC is similar in rich history, especially before the 80's when it was among the very best conferences in the country, and it hasn't been too shabby after that either. If you love the game, it's hard not to appreciate the history both conferences have to offer.

There's no doubt combining the cream from both conferences would be amazing, but then there's that whole geography thing that gets in the way. It's one thing if you have football TV money which makes conferences that spread out more reasonable, but a basketball conference that far-flung wouldn't be practical. The A-10's TV deal with CBS Sports/NBC Sports/ESPN pays out just over $350,000 per school per year for the next 8. The Big East's TV deal for non-football members is currently 1.7 million per year per school for media rights and NBC Sports is offering 4 million per non-football school per year to get them once their current ESPN deal expires. It's not a level playing field in that regard. Big-time football makes a huge difference in making national conferences like that feasible.

That conference would be awesome in basketball though and a bona fide major conference, no doubt about that. It would be a nightmare for non-revenue sports though and we wouldn't have the clout to command enough TV money to make up the costs for those sports' increased travel expenses. It's very fun to think about though!

One of the problems with the MVC is that a lot of its history has left the conference. For instance, at least three of the greatest players to ever play in the conference:

Ed Macauley, Saint Louis (1946-49) - 4-time all-MVC; 3-time First Team; 2-time All-American (1948, 1949); MVC Hall of Fame; Naismith Hall of Fame; National Player of the Year (1949) Oscar Robertson, Cincinnati (1957-60) - 3-time all-MVC; 3-time First Team; 3-time All-American (1958, 1959, 1960); MVC, Naismith and NABC Hall of Famer; 3-time National Player of the Year; No. 2 MVC scoring; No. 3 MVC rebounding
Wes Unseld, Louisville (1965-68) - 3-time first-team all-MVC; 3-time All-American (1966, 1967, 1968); MVC, Naismith Hall of Fame

Along with coaches like:

Phog Allen (Kansas)
Denny Crum (Louisville)
Henry Iba (Oklahoma A&M)
Tubby Smith (Tulsa)

I mean, a lot of the conference's history comes from teams no longer in the conference. Sure, some of the remaining teams have history (Bradley and Wichita State's Final Fours, Larry Bird for Indiana State, etc.) but the conference's teams are getting weaker except at the top from a lack of adequate funding. It is bad enough that the league is held together mainly because the smaller schools cannot afford to go anywhere else, but the league is also handicapped because they can't accept new members that aren't within the travelling constraints of the smaller schools, while Wichita State and Creighton can bring enough fans to preseason tournaments like Maui to rival major conference schools.

[DistrictBaller]

After being fired from Tulsa, I believe that Barnett had a difficult time landing a job.

He actually came back within a week of going to Tulsa to ask for his job back at VCU when he initially left in '85. You're absolutely right on about falling off the face of the earth after several seasons at Tulsa. He ended at some obscure school in Louisiana after that (Northwestern State, not sure who decided to name a school in Louisiana that haha).

[1972Shocker]

The 1968-1969 Drake Bulldogs made a nice run to the Final Four. They lost 82-85 in the Semi-Finals and then blew out North Carolina 104-84 in the 3rd place game (which, of course) is no longer played.

Unfortunately, a lot of water has passed under the bridge since those days when the Valley was a good as any conference in the land.

As you say it is simply a different world today and a far cry from those days for the MVC as a whole.