ISU game - Positives, Negatives, Observations

[SpanglerFan316]

1972: I have to disagree with you. It is easy to imagine that a new player will fit in immediately and perform at their previous level (e.g. shooting percentages). It usually does not work like that; look at Mantas and his shooting trouble. I think Gal is the starting point guard until Hannah takes it away from him. I think Ramon starts at the 4 unless someone takes it away. I don't plan on Orupke until he actually shows up. IF he shows up, I don't expect Stutz and Orupke to both start but rather I expect Ramon to start at forward and Orupke or Stutz to start at center; Marshall expects players to hustle and I don't think Orupke or Stutz will be ready as freshmen for 30 minutes of running.

My guess at the starting lineup:
PG: Gal Mekel
PG: Clevin Hannah
SF: A.J. Hawkins
PF: Ramon Clemente
C: Garrett Stutz (since he really exists ;-) )

[1972Shocker]

I think AJ will be primarily a 3 (kinda like Cooz), or at least that is what I've heard? Am I mistaken?

That may prove to be the case. I suppose it all depends on what options we end up with at the 3 once the dust settles.

I think we will have some flexibility with our 2's and 3's next year.

Remember, before the season there was a lot of talk about using PJ primarily at the 2 this year, but it has not worked out.

I'm not sure what HCGM will do. I'm sure what he sees in games the rest of this year and in practice next year will dictate how he will go with AJ.

[1972Shocker]

1972: I have to disagree with you. It is easy to imagine that a new player will fit in immediately and perform at their previous level (e.g. shooting percentages). It usually does not work like that; look at Mantas and his shooting trouble. I think Gal is the starting point guard until Hannah takes it away from him. I think Ramon starts at the 4 unless someone takes it away. I don't plan on Orupke until he actually shows up. IF he shows up, I don't expect Stutz and Orupke to both start but rather I expect Ramon to start at forward and Orupke or Stutz to start at center; Marshall expects players to hustle and I don't think Orupke or Stutz will be ready as freshmen for 30 minutes of running.

My guess at the starting lineup:
PG: Gal Mekel
PG: Clevin Hannah
SF: A.J. Hawkins
PF: Ramon Clemente
C: Garrett Stutz (since he really exists ;-) )

.

Chances are you are right SF316. But I did not say that I was prediciting that is what would happen. I said it is POSSIBLE we could have all new starters next year. It will depend on several things 1) how the guys perform the rest of this year; 2) does EO and a couple of other unknowns get added to the roster and 3) who comes to play next year.

You make valid points, but you have not swayed me that the POSSIBILTY of an all new starting 5 next year is out of the question. None of the players that will be returning next year have convinced me that can not be beaten out for a starting role by one of our newcomers.

Also, why can't we expect a newcomer to come in and shine every now and then. P'Allen looked OK to me as a newcomer for the BlueJays.

I think we can agree that competition for starting roles and PT next year will be quite interersting.

[SpanglerFan316]

1972: You are certainly correct that we could have entirely new players as starters. However I disagree that "Clevin Hannah probably will be slotted at starting point guard." He might end up being the starting point guard but I think he will have to earn this starting position. As of the start of practice in the Fall of 2008, Gal has to be penciled in as the starting point guard. By the first game, Hannah might be the starter.

[1972Shocker]

An observation from looking at the Illinois State box score.

When I saw the 24 turnovers I sort of expected that someone had a really bad game individually. Perhaps a 6-8 turnover game.

The Shock played 10 players. No one had less than 2 nor more than 3 turnovers. So it was a balanced team effort in that regard.

Unfortunately, 7 of the the 10 players had more turnovers than baskets made. Only Ramon, Gal and Mantas made more FG's than they had turnovers.

Hopefully, that is an oddity that we will never repeat.

[1972Shocker]

1972: You are certainly correct that we could have entirely new players as starters. However I disagree that "Clevin Hannah probably will be slotted at starting point guard." He might end up being the starting point guard but I think he will have to earn this starting position. As of the start of practice in the Fall of 2008, Gal has to be penciled in as the starting point guard. By the first game, Hannah might be the starter.

I would normally agree with you although I believe Gal is playing out of position at Point Guard. Whether HCGM thinks this is the case, I don't know for sure.

Gal did not earn the Point Guard spot this year. He was forced into it.

No doubt CH or any of the newcomers and as well as the returning players will have to EARN their spots.

My wording my have been poor. Perhaps, I should say that I think Clevin is the frontrunner for starting point guard next year. I think there is a specific reason HCGM recruited a JUCO point guard and it wasn't to back up an out-of-position Gal. It was to replace a graduating Matt (who was still healthy when Clevin was recruited).

I'm not dissing Gal. He has given everything he has this year. I think he will be a valuable Shocker the next two years primarily at the 2 guard and perhaps filling in as needed at the point.

I think the Shocks will be a much better team with Gal getting his PT at the 2 guard spot. Whether he will be the starting 2 or not time will tell. Perhaps that is the position he will have to be beaten out of.

[ripemupshocks]

This season was always going to be rough. But let's face it, GM is taking notes and he's a smart guy.

What was some Illinois St. player saying to the Shockers (Gal?)?

Coach mentioned it on the post game show and said he didn't like it and he would remember it, and they would answer for it (maybe not this year though).

CGM's comment was in reference to Boo Richardson doing the belly slide over our center court after they beat us here. But I doubt CGM was very happy with all of the jawing by the RedTerds. Oh sorry, Redbirds. That was also a problem when they played here. They are a bunch of mouthy little terds. Oh sorry, birds. Perhaps, winning a few games after being losers for so long, they are suffering from delusions of grandeur. Or perhaps it is because there new coach was a ChickenHawk.

[goshocks]

This season was always going to be rough. But let's face it, GM is taking notes and he's a smart guy.

What was some Illinois St. player saying to the Shockers (Gal?)?

Coach mentioned it on the post game show and said he didn't like it and he would remember it, and they would answer for it (maybe not this year though).

CGM's comment was in reference to Boo Richardson doing the belly slide over our center court after they beat us here. But I doubt CGM was very happy with all of the jawing by the RedTerds. Oh sorry, Redbirds. That was also a problem when they played here. They are a bunch of mouthy little terds. Oh sorry, birds. Perhaps, winning a few games after being losers for so long, they are suffering from delusions of grandeur. Or perhaps it is because there new coach was a ChickenHawk.

i hope we run up the score on them next year. they lose several seniors and I cant wait to see them again next year.
________
Herbal Vaporizer

[KC Shox]

Oh don't worry, we are gonna see these guys at the MVC Tourney. Yeah, I'm acting like a homer right now, but yeah, we're gonna spank these guys at the tourney.

[Ghost of Rick Lamb]

This season was always going to be rough. But let's face it, GM is taking notes and he's a smart guy.

What was some Illinois St. player saying to the Shockers (Gal?)?

Coach mentioned it on the post game show and said he didn't like it and he would remember it, and they would answer for it (maybe not this year though).

CGM's comment was in reference to Boo Richardson doing the belly slide over our center court after they beat us here. But I doubt CGM was very happy with all of the jawing by the RedTerds. Oh sorry, Redbirds. That was also a problem when they played here. They are a bunch of mouthy little terds. Oh sorry, birds. Perhaps, winning a few games after being losers for so long, they are suffering from delusions of grandeur. Or perhaps it is because there new coach was a ChickenHawk.

Hey guys

Not trying to start trouble as you know, but I was sitting 8 rows behind your bench and I do not condone trash talking in anyway, shape, or form, but I can tell you it was coming from both sides: Johnson to Mekel and vice versa. Richardson was not involved at all.

I honestly don't think there was anything to it or anything personal between the two. It was merely a case of two competitive guys playing as hard as they could, things gets physical and words get exchanged and maybe a shove or two. I don't like it, but I've come to expect it in today's game in just about every game. It will happen again this Saturday when you play SIU and when we play Drake and likely in most games the rest of the year. I can't stand it, but I have accepted it as part of the game. This aspect of the game is one of the reasons I got out of coaching several years ago.

As far as Boo sliding across your floor. That wasn't very wise to do. It's another thing I don't condone. I'm sure he got caught up in the moment of a big road win, but that's no excuse. He was wrong to do that.

Best of luck the rest of the way and especially against SIU saturday.

[vbird53]

Not trying to start trouble as you know, but I was sitting 8 rows behind your bench and I do not condone trash talking in anyway, shape, or form, but I can tell you it was coming from both sides: Johnson to Mekel and vice versa. Richardson was not involved at all.

Completely agree. I think it just got a little heated at the moment.

[RoyalShock]

Gal definitely did a little jawing and none of us will ever really know if he instigated or was baited. According to HCGM, Gal is quite the competitor and with frustrations rising, who knows.

[Snapshot9]

1972: I have to disagree with you. It is easy to imagine that a new player will fit in immediately and perform at their previous level (e.g. shooting percentages). It usually does not work like that; look at Mantas and his shooting trouble. I think Gal is the starting point guard until Hannah takes it away from him. I think Ramon starts at the 4 unless someone takes it away. I don't plan on Orupke until he actually shows up. IF he shows up, I don't expect Stutz and Orupke to both start but rather I expect Ramon to start at forward and Orupke or Stutz to start at center; Marshall expects players to hustle and I don't think Orupke or Stutz will be ready as freshmen for 30 minutes of running.

My guess at the starting lineup:
PG: Gal Mekel
PG: Clevin Hannah
SF: A.J. Hawkins
PF: Ramon Clemente
C: Garrett Stutz (since he really exists ;-) )

Pretty much agree with you, but think Hannah will start at PG, and Gal at SG, AJ as 3rd guard (or SF if you prefer). Rest of your lineup, I agree with. Gal is more effective and scores more points as a SG.

I think CGM is lining up for a 3 guard lineup, hit and run group, that can dribble pentrate, or hit pullup jumpers, or the 3. He wants more quickness in his guard play. Maybe not for 2 lineups, but at least one of them.

Although Gris and Ellis might start out playing next year, off the bench, I think they will not see that many minutes as the season progresses, and the newcomers get used to D-1 ball. CGM has stated, more than once, that whoever performs the best will play, and we have some talent coming in for next year. I think Preadom is in trouble for sticking around next year, and Hatch is probably dependent on how well he does the rest of the season. Michaels won't see the court next year, IMO.

If CGM gets a 6'8-9" PF out of High School, I think Durley would be questionable for next year, but I do like his Offense.

Orukpe, if he shows up, is already used to running for 30 minutes, per all the Nigerian basketball info. I think Garrett will be a quick study, off the bench If Orukpe is here, otherwise will start.

AJ will give us some creativity, and aggressive moves and athleticism.