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(UTSA 8-14, 2-7), at (WSU 9-13, 1-8) GAME THREAD

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  • I like how some of you think playing a guy 10 minutes over the course of a game is akin to benching good players and not trying to win. Joy should have been playing a few minutes here and there over the last three months and it wouldn't hurt a damn thing or lead to more losses than we have. Hell, most on this board have been begging for less Bell or Cortes or both. You'd be talking about 5 fewer minutes for each, more or less.
    Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
    RIP Guy Always A Shocker
    Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
    ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
    Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
    Save Shocker Sports - A rallying cry

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    • How many times does it need to be said that Joy IS NOT a PG. Joy would be taking minutes away from Rogers. We'd be replacing a 40% 3-point shooter (who's leading the game in made 3's) with a 22% shooter from 3 who's shown no hesitancy to put up a 3 any time, any place, any where.

      Play Joy and if he's worth anything, he gets poached. If he's worth anything and doesn't play, we get him next year. If this year is a throwaway, and Joy might contribute, save that for next year, If he's not worth anything, cut him and use the scholly on someone who might contribute.

      The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
      We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

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      • Originally posted by Aargh View Post
        How many times does it need to be said that Joy IS NOT a PG. Joy would be taking minutes away from Rogers. We'd be replacing a 40% 3-point shooter (who's leading the game in made 3's) with a 22% shooter from 3 who's shown no hesitancy to put up a 3 any time, any place, any where.

        Play Joy and if he's worth anything, he gets poached. If he's worth anything and doesn't play, we get him next year. If this year is a throwaway, and Joy might contribute, save that for next year, If he's not worth anything, cut him and use the scholly on someone who might contribute.
        Bell also isn't a PG. Sometimes when he's in, Rogers or Beverly are handling PG duties. So Joy could easily still take minutes from Bell and Cortes. We DO NOT have a valid PG regardless of how you want to label any player. Joy can handle the ball as well or better than most of the guards. If you don't want him bringing it up, you can let Rogers or Beverly. He could still be playing for Bell and/or Cortes.

        If Mills is afraid to have players poached if they play well, then he shouldn't be a HC. If he's worth getting poached but doesn't play you could lose him just as easily because he doesn't see the court and he could find someone that will play him. You can play the bullshit what if game from any direction.
        Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
        RIP Guy Always A Shocker
        Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
        ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
        Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
        Save Shocker Sports - A rallying cry

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        • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post

          Bell also isn't a PG. Sometimes when he's in, Rogers or Beverly are handling PG duties. So Joy could easily still take minutes from Bell and Cortes. We DO NOT have a valid PG regardless of how you want to label any player. Joy can handle the ball as well or better than most of the guards. If you don't want him bringing it up, you can let Rogers or Beverly. He could still be playing for Bell and/or Cortes.

          If Mills is afraid to have players poached if they play well, then he shouldn't be a HC. If he's worth getting poached but doesn't play you could lose him just as easily because he doesn't see the court and he could find someone that will play him. You can play the bullshit what if game from any direction.
          Cortes...I could get on board with Joy over him

          Bell, hate on him all you want but Joy is NOT replacing his production regardless of turnovers.
          "He called me around noon and was thrilled," Brandt said. "He said he was going to be a Shocker forever." -- RIP Guy, you WILL indeed be a Shocker forever!

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          • Originally posted by shockerfan View Post

            Cortes...I could get on board with Joy over him

            Bell, hate on him all you want but Joy is NOT replacing his production regardless of turnovers.
            Who said replace? I've said repeatedly that Joy should have been getting maybe 10 minutes a game or so to develop and gain experience. We're talking maybe five minutes or so from each player, unless/until Joy would have moved beyond and earned more.

            Would Joy score as much as Bell? Probably not. Would he turn the ball over as much as Bell? I don't think so, but who knows, he's a FR. Would he play better defense than Bell? Absolutely. Replace Bell with Cortes and I think the answers would be yes, no, and yes.

            I'm not sure where some on here have gotten the idea that playing Joy a little throughout the season would equate to benching others entirely. That's just misunderstanding or in some cases a completely dishonest approach to dialogue.

            It's a shame that Mills has completely wasted a year for the young man.
            Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
            RIP Guy Always A Shocker
            Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
            ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
            Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
            Save Shocker Sports - A rallying cry

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            • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post
              Would he play better defense than Bell? Absolutely.
              Based off of what? You're watching him play in mop-up minutes and coming to these conclusions. Bell isn't our weakness defensively.

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              • Originally posted by shocker43 View Post

                Based off of what? You're watching him play in mop-up minutes and coming to these conclusions. Bell isn't our weakness defensively.
                His dawg per 40 is off the charts

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                • Not to be negative Nancy, I would have liked to see Joy play some, especially when the Shockers couldn't drop it in the ocean (so to speak). My guess? Joy won't be here next season. And Mills must be OK with that. If certain players are still eating the lion's share of minutes next season, I don't know how that makes next season's team better.

                  For me, in the skilled players department, I've got 2 guys. Ballard and Beverly. Both have had to shake a fair amount of rust off their game this season and could potentially be improved next year. The others? I just don't know. Rogers has a nice looking shot, but he's just not adept at getting downhill (towards the basket). And his ball handling/passing need work. His footwork is a little slow on D. The rest? None are shooters-makers. Few have the ability to:
                  1. take care of the ball (that includes dribbling and passing)
                  2. make an outside shot consistently thereby taking pressure off a collapsing defense
                  3. provide a regular scoring punch or the ability to "get hot"

                  Gimme Craig Porter, Beverly, Ballard, throw in Rogers, a Wessel-type, a clutch shooter - ANY clutch shooter...............


                  ...........a Rashard-type, an XMan, Carr or Levingston and I'd say you got yourself a real team.



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                  • Originally posted by JVShocker View Post
                    Not to be negative Nancy, I would have liked to see Joy play some, especially when the Shockers couldn't drop it in the ocean (so to speak). My guess? Joy won't be here next season. And Mills must be OK with that. If certain players are still eating the lion's share of minutes next season, I don't know how that makes next season's team better.

                    For me, in the skilled players department, I've got 2 guys. Ballard and Beverly. Both have had to shake a fair amount of rust off their game this season and could potentially be improved next year. The others? I just don't know. Rogers has a nice looking shot, but he's just not adept at getting downhill (towards the basket). And his ball handling/passing need work. His footwork is a little slow on D. The rest? None are shooters-makers. Few have the ability to:
                    1. take care of the ball (that includes dribbling and passing)
                    2. make an outside shot consistently thereby taking pressure off a collapsing defense
                    3. provide a regular scoring punch or the ability to "get hot"

                    Gimme Craig Porter, Beverly, Ballard, throw in Rogers, a Wessel-type, a clutch shooter - ANY clutch shooter...............


                    ...........a Rashard-type, an XMan, Carr or Levingston and I'd say you got yourself a real team.


                    I would like to see Rogers stay if for no other reason that he is our only legitimate 3pt shooter. Yes he has weaknesses in other areas. But unless we pluck another KNOW AND EXPERIENCED 3 point shooter....I think we need him back. We need someone on our roster that people will at least chase around and guard way out on the perimeter.
                    "He called me around noon and was thrilled," Brandt said. "He said he was going to be a Shocker forever." -- RIP Guy, you WILL indeed be a Shocker forever!

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                    • It’s crazy that we’re even talking about not having Rogers back. He’s literally carrying us right now with his offensive load, even if his defense sucks. That’s something that hopefully we can teach him. He has to stay.

                      I think we would even see him really grow in danger if we had other legitimate threats on the court. As it stands, he’s kind of by himself which makes him look worse, as he’s got all the pressure on him.

                      Without a doubt some of the guards have to go. The question is who — for me, it’s Cortes, one of Beverly or Bell as I think they play the same role and style (I’d pick Bell to stay personally).

                      Beyond the guard position, we need more options at the 4. DeGray is okay, but he’s sort of an offensive black hole and doesn’t strike me as an ultimate defender. Germany is gone (not that he was a 4). Isaac I actually like, and I was impressed early on at his contribution but that quickly disappeared. He’s not consistent enough, which is what I am guessing left him on the bench. Ridgnal is gone too which is too bad because I do like him.

                      Ballard is amazing and our most important returning piece. Pohto is soft, I dislike him, but see the value he can provide as a decent alternative. I just wish we’d stop thinking he can stroke a 3 ball. He’s an abysmal shooter.

                      The more I look at it, I don’t think we’re too many pieces off having a decent team. We’re just missing some critical roles (such as another three point threat or even a dang PG), which sets us so far behind because we’re committing insane amounts of turnovers every game.

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                      • Ballard, Rogers, Degray, Bell (as a backup), Isaac, Joy, Mamba, Beverly come back. The rest…transfer for playing time elsewhere. Kenny seems like a great kid but just cancels himself out.

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                        • Originally posted by Ashockalypse View Post
                          Ballard, Rogers, Degray, Bell (as a backup), Isaac, Joy, Mamba, Beverly come back. The rest…transfer for playing time elsewhere. Kenny seems like a great kid but just cancels himself out.
                          That would spell big trouble unless all three open spots are filled with players that are going to step right in and play right away AND contribute fairly significantly.
                          Once again, I ask you to name me at least three D1 back up centers with better numbers than KP? Still waiting. Also, might want to keep in mind the difficulty of getting a good center prospect if QB remains, even tougher if they both stay. PG is #1 prioirty.
                          Last edited by asiseeit; 1 week ago.

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                          • Originally posted by asiseeit View Post

                            That would spell big trouble unless all three open spots are filled with players that are going to step right in and play right away AND contribute fairly significantly.
                            Once again, I ask you to name me at least three D1 back up centers with better numbers than KP? Still waiting.
                            Yeah we want the two headed monster we have at center. Behind a solid guard lineup they will both do damage.
                            Kung Wu say, man making mistake in elevator wrong on many levels.

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