Deb Farris: WSU To Look into Bringing Football Back in Next 3-4 Years

[SubGod22]

I partially agree with both sides of the argument in the last several posts. The landscape is very different. My vague memories of football in this area during the 80s is that it was an afterthought to basketball. But now it seems to have surpassed hoops in popularity. So that would be a mark against those who use the 80s as an argument against bringing football back.

Obviously, I agree with this.

On the other hand, this area is saturated given the population density. We've got five FBS programs within a 3-hour drive from Wichita (KSU, KU, OSU, OU, TU). We've got a top-tier D2 program at Pittsburg State and two top juco programs at Butler and Hutch. And that means local talent has plent of mostly local options. WSU would have to draw talent away from TU, PSU, Butler and Hutch (for those who are qualifiers), which I think will prove difficult at first. If they can steal a few kids and put some wins on the board, then it should become much easier.

I understand the concerns, but feel we could definitely steal kids from PSU. For most kids, DI trumps DII. Even if it is FCS. As far as the JUCOs go, they're very good and you could add Coffeyville to that list. I think the success of those schools could actually be a benefit to recruiting. We may not get the best of the best as they're headed to BcS schools, but there's a lot of talent there that could benefit a WSU in recruiting. Getting kids to come here instead of there would be tough. Especially if they think they could get a chance at a bigger school. But KS has some pretty good talent to draw off of.

From a fan standpoint I think WSU would fare a little better. I'm betting there are a number of casual football fans that either travel to those neighboring programs to watch a game or stay home, who would pay to watch FCS. Comparing potential attendance to what current Valley schools draw is a waste of time. We already know that being in a metro area will give us a leg up on MSU, UNI, SIU and the ISUs.

I think there'd be a lot more casual interest now than there was then. People like football and I could see WSU being very competitive in the MVFC fairly quickly as we have a lot to offer. And you bring up a great attendance advantage that we have in our metro location.

All that said, I think the long-term goal has to be FBS and getting into whatever conference will be the equivalent of today's MWC. With all the FBS football being played nearby, I see interest in an FCS program, at a metro school, waning over time.

Completely agree. And as I've mentioned elsewhere, if the moritorium on move ups is inacted in a year or two for the rumored length, that could be to our benefit as it would halt the move ups for a decade and give us time to build something and possibly put ourselves in position to join another conference when the time comes.

I know I have a more optimistic view than some on here about it, but I see a lot of positives. And it goes beyond football. I really can't wait to see what Bardo has planned to help grow enrollment here. I hope he gets things going and then could see the return of football give that a major shot in the arm.

[SubGod22]

For FCS football, WSU would need:

130 scholarships

Just about.

Additional conditioning facilities for FB players

Something would need to be done. Not sure how much though so it's hard to judge.

Additional facilities for adding some women's sports

Not necessarily. Soccer could play at Cessna. Crew I don't know about. Swimming and Diving could use an off campus place if need be for awhile.

At least 5,000 more parking spaces (if you anticipate more than 10K at the games)

I don't think it's as big a deal as many make out. We already have parking for 10,500 plus students in class and some room to spare. Walking some won't kill anyone as you have to do it no matter where you go to a college game. And there have already been some discussion about the potential of parking garage or two regardless of football.

Rehab of Cessna

Of course, but it could be a process and doesn't have to be a massive job all at once.

In the range of 20 additional coaches

I have no idea on this. I think football has somewhere in the range of 5-7. Swimming and diving may have 2 or 3. Crew 1 or 2. Soccer a couple. 20 may be a little high, but not way off.

Travel costs for about 3 additional women's sports

I don't think women's soccer would be a huge money loser. I could see it on the level of VB as soccer has grown in popularity in this area. Not a huge money loser anyway. I don't know exactly how the others function so it's hard to say.

Equipment for about 100 FB players

Probably a little high as we're not going to have 40 walk-ons, but it is an expensive start up cost.

After you do all of that, then you roll the dice that you can get 10K to watch an unknown WSU FB team play a bunch of no-name schools. WSU might actually average over 10K the first year when local college FB would be a novelty, but a start-up team is likely to be a losing team. Then you've got to convince 15K fans to watch a bad team play against schools that FB fans have never heard of.

10k I think is a low ball number for the return of unknown football against Valley foes. I would think the first couple of years would probably average at least 15 and probably higher.

6 home games with 10K attendance and $40 per person (tickets, merchandis, concessions) is about $2.5 mill. that will pay the coaching staffs. Then there will be the 60 - 0 beatdowns at the hands of BCS schools. Those games will generate lots of $$, but will local fans continue to follow a team that's that bad? If you think WSU can field a better team than that in the first couple years of existence with the competition for recruits in this area, you are dreaming.

I don't think we'd see a lot of those "beatdowns" once the program established itself. I don't think it would take a lot of time to get on par with the likes of UNI in FCS and they can be competitive against some top schools. There would be some beatdowns, but if WSU is competitive in the MVFC and makes the playoffs, things would be just fine.

[Veritas]

I do recall 5k-10k attending some games towards the end of a losing season playing the likes of SIU and InSU. I also recall 30K watching WSU play OSU and Tulsa, and a then record crowd for KU playing WSU at Memorial Stadium.
To me, the crux of the issue is not money, but conference affiliation. Many have pointed out before that few get excited to watch WSU play SIU, InSU, or IlSU, but do get excited to play Tulsa and other area schools. If a new conference can be worked out, and a new stadium built, WSU has the potential to be a school similar to Louisville (which is also a state supported urban university. Interesting note: % of UoL freshmen who live on campus is 71%)

Signman brought up a lot of wonderful points. It's time to take WSU to the next level with sports, academics, influence, and a positive student campus environment.

[tw805]

I just have a hard time believing that it's entirely impossible for this university to bring football back with any level of success. We're never going to be Oklahoma, Nebraska, Notre Dame, etc. But it seems beyond argument that having football changes the dynamic of your university entirely. There is actual activity on campus in the fall. Not having campus activity when the new kids are forming their impressions of the place seems counterproductive to me.

Akron, Buffalo, Bowling Green, Boise State, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Florida Atlantic, Central Florida, Kent State, Middle Tennessee, and Old Dominion (I could go on) all play FBS football. There are six others coming on board next year. Yes, many of those schools have higher enrollment numbers than us. But in contrast, TCU plays football at an extremely high level, and they have 8,000 students. Enrollment does not appear to be a universally determinant factor. Schools are seeing the benefit in playing high level football without regard to enrollment or conference affiliation. I find it difficult to believe that administrations at dozens of schools are simply sitting around hemorrhaging money with no direct or collateral benefit.

While I realize this is entirely anecdotal, when I was a kid there always seemed to be a statewide perception of the "big three" schools. WSU was right there with them. In more recent years, particularly after football was dropped, there is a clear gap between KU, KSU, and WSU. We have been quickly and decisively relegated to second-tier status. I don't know whether there is a correlation with football, but having gone on to graduate school and attended school elsewhere, I can tell you that a football Saturday on-campus is an entirely different feel. It may be that we have to decide whether we can afford not to bring it back, because the sought after increase in enrollment may be hard to come by without it. Let's face it. Fall Saturdays on campus at WSU are boring as hell.

[SpanglerFan316]

Ayn Rand

I keep forgetting; for which football team did Ayn Rand coach?

[1972Shocker]

I keep forgetting; for which football team did Ayn Rand coach?

Liberty.

[1972Shocker]

I'm just curious. How many will be upping their finacial support for WSU athletics if we bring back football and by what percentage. Or will your support from football just come from other areas your are currently supporting.

I hate to have to admit it but at the present time I am at my limit on what I can do overall regarding my financial support of Shocker athletics. In fact, looking to the future I see the prospect for me personally would be of diminishing support as opposed to increasing support, although I will do the best I can.

Maybe the deep pockets will step up behind the right plan and leadership as @SubGod22: suggests and what the tadpoles like myself do will not be very important.

[Kung Wu]

By step up support, do you mean purchase season tickets and meet new SASO requirements?

[1972Shocker]

By step up support, do you mean purchase season tickets and meet new SASO requirements?

Any kind of additional financial support. New stadium building campaign, football season tickets, season tickets to any of the new women sports, season tickets to any of our existing non-revenue sports, joing the Match Clup, High Hoops Club, Battery Club, Coaches Club, increase SASO membership level, new SASO requirements for football and perhaps men's basketball, game sponsorships, time-out promotions, buy more concessions, etc, etc.

Anything that adds dollars to the big pot, and I am not just referring to the urinal cake naming rights.

[Signman]

I keep forgetting; for which football team did Ayn Rand coach?

Maybe this is more your style?

"It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up."

Vince Lombardi

[WuDrWu]

Here's the plan hatched by my best friend and financial wizard in a discussion last weekend:

A) The "super structure of Cessna Stadium has to come down. It's an eyesore, it's ugly and barely usable. However, it's a good start for a practice facility. Estimate $10 million to downsize and renovate, update the Track for Bolt to host and size event (expand to 9 or 10 lanes) and build offices for football to connect to CKA.

B)Remove the golf course. I know....but it has to go. It occupies 20%+ of campus. Build a 50,000 seat state of the art football stadium on the corner of 21st & Oliver. Make it capable of expanding if the day ever comes. Luxury sky boxes all around. Enclosed bowl. No track. I'm sure JJ will work us a deal at Flint Hills with Grier. I estimate $75 million.

C)Develop the area on the NE corner. Tons of opportunity there. You could easily include a parking garage if needed, although I would put on the stadium site. This would likely be at no cost, even a profit if done correctly.

D)Use the remaining land for needed parking, dorms and most importantly, the Charles Koch School of Geology & Land Management that will be opening in the next couple of years. This school, tied in with a slew of advanced degrees with the world wide acclaimed school of Entrepreneurial Studies will become the destination for students wanting to get degrees in the only money making field remaining in the free market.

No real need to go into the dollars of the thing. These are the basics. I've chosen to exclude my ideas on a volleyball facility, which would of course be included.

[SubGod22]

I've had to back off my financial support at the moment, kind of. But once I graduate and am able to find better employment, I could see myself trying to get season tickets back for basketball, starting football and I'd continue to go to some VB and even soccer games as time and finances would permit. Depending on my financial situation, I'd love to have season tickets to basketball, football and volleyball. I can guarantee that even without season tickets, I'd make it to as many games as possible for those three.

I could also see me getting a decent sized group together to attend all home FB games and having a great time doing it.

[1972Shocker]

Here's the plan hatched by my best friend and financial wizard in a discussion last weekend:

A) The "super structure of Cessna Stadium has to come down. It's an eyesore, it's ugly and barely usable. However, it's a good start for a practice facility. Estimate $10 million to downsize and renovate, update the Track for Bolt to host and size event (expand to 9 or 10 lanes) and build offices for football to connect to CKA.

B)Remove the golf course. I know....but it has to go. It occupies 20%+ of campus. Build a 50,000 seat state of the art football stadium on the corner of 21st & Oliver. Make it capable of expanding if the day ever comes. Luxury sky boxes all around. Enclosed bowl. No track. I'm sure JJ will work us a deal at Flint Hills with Grier. I estimate $75 million.

C)Develop the area on the NE corner. Tons of opportunity there. You could easily include a parking garage if needed, although I would put on the stadium site. This would likely be at no cost, even a profit if done correctly.

D)Use the remaining land for needed parking, dorms and most importantly, the Charles Koch School of Geology & Land Management that will be opening in the next couple of years. This school, tied in with a slew of advanced degrees with the world wide acclaimed school of Entrepreneurial Studies will become the destination for students wanting to get degrees in the only money making field remaining in the free market.

No real need to go into the dollars of the thing. These are the basics. I've chosen to exclude my ideas on a volleyball facility, which would of course be included.

No casino? :-(

[DoubleJayAlum]

I have a question for you guys --

Is it possible that FB has started down a long slide? With all of the concussions and related CTEs, I wonder how rosy the football picture is long term. There are already countless stories of physicians and parents not letting their own children play FB because of the CTE problem (which can be caused by repetitive trauma and does not require one to even suffer concussions).

The lawsuit brought by former NFL players seems to be gaining traction. Recently, helmet manufacturers were added as an additional defendant. What would the impact of one big trial verdict be?

I know that there is a ton of money to be made in football right now, but boxing was once the country's most popular sport as well... until people stopped doing it because of the long term side effects.

How much weight should one put into weighing this issue when evaluating whether football should be reinstated?

[Kung Wu]

Any kind of additional financial support. New stadium building campaign, football season tickets, season tickets to any of the new women sports, season tickets to any of our existing non-revenue sports, joing the Match Clup, High Hoops Club, Battery Club, Coaches Club, increase SASO membership level, new SASO requirements for football and perhaps men's basketball, game sponsorships, time-out promotions, buy more concessions, etc, etc.

Anything that adds dollars to the big pot, and I am not just referring to the urinal cake naming rights.

Football season tickets right here! No doubt about it. I'll sell my left kidney if I hafta. Or maybe an appendix? I dunno but I'm yanking sumptin' out for WSU football, if I gotta!