Deb Farris: WSU To Look into Bringing Football Back in Next 3-4 Years

[bleed yellow]

Why is every power conference school weary of scheduling a non-power conference school? Because if the power conference school loses, they take an RPI hit and if they win big, why did they even schedule a game they named the score in? And in this situation, Gonzaga and WSU are pretty much equals as far as talent right now. VCU would probably be the most risky bet to schedule for any power conference school if losing is a concern. Point is, KSU could of pulled this series off with WSU and gotten the same results and all's they would of needed was a bus instead of an air plane. They opted to look right past WSU though, possibly for recruiting reasons, to go play in Washington where for them, winning is certainly not guaranteed.

[ShockTalk]

I don't understand what KSU playing Gonzaga has to do with anything? The powers that be at KSU and KU are d-bags for avoiding WSU -- but who they schedule against other than us is immaterial unless I am missing something.

The game this year is at a "neutral" site in Seattle. Has it been determined whether the return game will be in KC or Wichita? I'd like to agree with the last part of your post, @Kung Wu:, but, frankly, if they play that game in Wichita, it just rubs me the wrong way by both K St and Gonzaga. I don't care one way or the other in KC, I just don't like another top non-BCS team playing K St right under our noses (that is unless we can get a Shox/Zags two game series).

[Ricardo del Rio]

"Grey uniforms"

"Half time shows"

"The athletic department didn't return my call"

And don't forget that ever enriching topic, "The Merits and Demerits of JUCO Players."

[KraRam]

Signman, great post. I would love to have football back as well, but at what cost. Football was shut down due to the 10 million dollar hole that football put the university in. This was when we had 17K students and college was fairly reasonable in price to attend. I was at those games in the 80's. Me and maybe 5,000 other people. This town will not support a so-so program. The only way it will work is if we can get into a TV conference, but to do that would take years of DII status with a hope to moving to D1. That would require minimums of investment and fans. If football was that special to this city it would have supported it when it was here and it did not. It does support basketball, even in losing seasons. We are one of the few cities that will send 7-8K fans to a game during a losing season. Just look back at our years after Eddie. We support WSU baseball, although that may be waning as considering the product of late. It sounds like Bardo is on the right track. But to take millions to try and resurrect football to me is wasted money at this point in college football. If we are willing to be DII I would support it, because we can afford to play in DII. But that would also mean a possible reduction in basketball spending (IE: Coaching salaries). Barring the KOCHS going T. Boon Pickens on us, I don't see the cash. Although I will admit, I think after 2 years we could field a team that could be the JHawks.

[SubGod22]

Signman, great post. I would love to have football back as well, but at what cost. Football was shut down due to the 10 million dollar hole that football put the university in. This was when we had 17K students and college was fairly reasonable in price to attend. I was at those games in the 80's. Me and maybe 5,000 other people. This town will not support a so-so program. The only way it will work is if we can get into a TV conference, but to do that would take years of DII status with a hope to moving to D1. That would require minimums of investment and fans. If football was that special to this city it would have supported it when it was here and it did not. It does support basketball, even in losing seasons. We are one of the few cities that will send 7-8K fans to a game during a losing season. Just look back at our years after Eddie. We support WSU baseball, although that may be waning as considering the product of late. It sounds like Bardo is on the right track. But to take millions to try and resurrect football to me is wasted money at this point in college football. If we are willing to be DII I would support it, because we can afford to play in DII. But that would also mean a possible reduction in basketball spending (IE: Coaching salaries). Barring the KOCHS going T. Boon Pickens on us, I don't see the cash. Although I will admit, I think after 2 years we could field a team that could be the JHawks.

As has been mentioned before, college football is a different animal now that in was 25-30 years ago. And, with the right leadership and plan, big money doners could be there to help get things going. Also, if Bardo is able to increase student enrollment, that will help and I wouldn't be surprised to see a bump in student fees as well. We're still the cheapest school to attend among the D1's in the state, a little increase in fees isn't going to change that, but could also lead to a big bump in enrollment as well as the atmoshpere on campus. And we can't forget the increase in money to be made off of merchandise. Football will absolutley lead to an increase there. And I think we could be very competitive at the D1-FCS level for awhile and average 15k+ until an opportunity to move to a D1-FBS conference presented itself.

[SpanglerFan316]

I think comments like "college football is a different animal now that in was 25-30 years ago" are meaningless to WSU. The Shocks will never get into the Big 12 and getting into the SEC is a huge longshot. WSU will never get the big TV bucks unless the state forces KU and KSU to bring WSU into the Big 12 (and that is not going to happen). Football at WSU will be, AT BEST, revenue neutral.

[vtshocker]

i could care less about being in the big 12, i would be very happy with FCS football

[1972Shocker]

As has been mentioned before, college football is a different animal now that in was 25-30 years ago.

There is no doubt about that being the case. However, that can also be a two-edged sword.

While there are some positive aspects to those changes there are also some negative aspects to the differences now vs then.

For one thing the chasm between the haves and have nots has grown signficantly wider than it was when the WSU program was shutdown and from what I see, it continues to grow wider. OTOH, we can get a couple of pretty nice paydays by agreeing to take a couple of beat downs a year at the hands of the big boys.

As KraRam points out TV is the tail that wags the dog and it's impact is not just from the huge dollars that are being pulled down by the BCS conferences. It also provides a great deal of competition in attracting and distracting the fan base. We did not have wall-to-wall college football on the tube to compete with in and prior to the mid-1980's. Today we do.

So as KraRam says unless the Koch brothers decide to go T-Boone for us then hopes for anything more than a FCS program seem very remote. Even to get to that point would take a very determined and tough effort with no assurance of success. Not sure why you think the big money supporters are ready to step up for football. I do not get the sense that is the case at the present time.

One of the toughest chores WSU football will have if they want to compete at the FBS level is where will the 85 D-1 quality football players come from. Recruiting will not be easy nor will it be inexpensive. It's one thing to provide 3G with a private plane to recruit a handful of players every year, but at least the there are still enough very fine players left in the pool he is fishing in that he can put together a team capable of competing with the big boys. Duplicating that for football will be very tough, if not impossible.

Maybe the landscape will change enough 5-10 years down the line when Dr. Bardo might be ready to give bringing back football some serious consideration to make it an easier decision. But in the current environment, absent T. Chuck Koch riding to the rescue, bringing back football is a bet the D-1 status of the WSU program so we better have slam dunk assurances that it will be successful. I think we are a long, long way from that being the case.

I do understand the argument that we could still end up in the same place unless we bring football back. It's possible it may not matter what we do, we simply are not in a situation to dictate where we eventually shake out.

I don't think we have seen the last of the changes in the structure and infrastructure of college athletics. Where it will all lead to is very difficult to predict.

[1972Shocker]

i could care less about being in the big 12, i would be very happy with FCS football

I think any decision to bring football back should be made based on whether we could have a financially vialble FCS program. If we eventually develop into more than that great, but that simply may or may not happen and you certainly can't bring the football program back on the assumption we will eventually land in and be successful in a BCS level conference.

[SubGod22]

I think comments like "college football is a different animal now that in was 25-30 years ago" are meaningless to WSU. The Shocks will never get into the Big 12 and getting into the SEC is a huge longshot. WSU will never get the big TV bucks unless the state forces KU and KSU to bring WSU into the Big 12 (and that is not going to happen). Football at WSU will be, AT BEST, revenue neutral.

You don't have to be in the XII or SEC to have a successful and beneficial program. And if that's why you think, I can see why you've been so against it.

[SubGod22]

I think any decision to bring football back should be made based on whether we could have a financially vialble FCS program. If we eventually develop into more than that great, but that simply may or may not happen and you certainly can't bring the football program back on the assumption we will eventually land in and be successful in a BCS level conference.

Even the option of potentially being in a CUSA or MWC type of conference would be beneficial down the road. As we are now, those are longer shots than getting into a BCS conference with football.

[SpanglerFan316]

You don't have to be in the XII or SEC to have a successful and beneficial program. And if that's why you think, I can see why you've been so against it.

Sutton's law

[RoyalShock]

I partially agree with both sides of the argument in the last several posts. The landscape is very different. My vague memories of football in this area during the 80s is that it was an afterthought to basketball. But now it seems to have surpassed hoops in popularity. So that would be a mark against those who use the 80s as an argument against bringing football back.

On the other hand, this area is saturated given the population density. We've got five FBS programs within a 3-hour drive from Wichita (KSU, KU, OSU, OU, TU). We've got a top-tier D2 program at Pittsburg State and two top juco programs at Butler and Hutch. And that means local talent has plent of mostly local options. WSU would have to draw talent away from TU, PSU, Butler and Hutch (for those who are qualifiers), which I think will prove difficult at first. If they can steal a few kids and put some wins on the board, then it should become much easier.

From a fan standpoint I think WSU would fare a little better. I'm betting there are a number of casual football fans that either travel to those neighboring programs to watch a game or stay home, who would pay to watch FCS. Comparing potential attendance to what current Valley schools draw is a waste of time. We already know that being in a metro area will give us a leg up on MSU, UNI, SIU and the ISUs.

All that said, I think the long-term goal has to be FBS and getting into whatever conference will be the equivalent of today's MWC. With all the FBS football being played nearby, I see interest in an FCS program, at a metro school, waning over time.

[Signman]

Financial inflation maybe, but the exact number for the loss in 1986 was $839,000 not $10,000,000. Given the fact that we have literally lost thousands of students a year and hundreds of millions in revenue over the last 26 years this deficit seems small. The President of WSU at that time, Warren Armstrong, did ask the community to raise 3.6 million to continue football but this is still no where near $10,000,000. The numbers getting thrown around are almost comical. "It's going to cost $100,000,000 to start football"! Really, an average NFL payroll per year is in the $100,000,000 range. Will we be getting NFL players?


I apologize for this but of course I know it will be expensive and it will take time but the question Bardo asked is who do you want to beat? Well who does Boise State want to beat? Who does TCU want to beat? Who does Memphis want to beat?

My question is who do we want to be? Boise State? Louisville? Memphis? Syracuse? What is our vision?

I am an optimist. I think it can be done and I think it should be done.

"Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark. In the hopeless swamps of the not quite, the not yet, and the not at all, do not let the hero in your soul perish and leave only frustration for the life you deserved, but never have been able to reach. The world you desire can be won, it exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours."

Ayn Rand

[Aargh]

For FCS football, WSU would need:

130 scholarships
Additional conditioning facilities for FB players
Additional facilities for adding some women's sports
At least 5,000 more parking spaces (if you anticipate more than 10K at the games)
Rehab of Cessna
In the range of 20 additional coaches
Travel costs for about 3 additional women's sports
Equipment for about 100 FB players

After you do all of that, then you roll the dice that you can get 10K to watch an unknown WSU FB team play a bunch of no-name schools. WSU might actually average over 10K the first year when local college FB would be a novelty, but a start-up team is likely to be a losing team. Then you've got to convince 15K fans to watch a bad team play against schools that FB fans have never heard of.

6 home games with 10K attendance and $40 per person (tickets, merchandis, concessions) is about $2.5 mill. that will pay the coaching staffs. Then there will be the 60 - 0 beatdowns at the hands of BCS schools. Those games will generate lots of $$, but will local fans continue to follow a team that's that bad? If you think WSU can field a better team than that in the first couple years of existence with the competition for recruits in this area, you are dreaming.