WICHITA STATE (8-3) vs. KANSAS STATE (8-3) Game Thread

[ShockTalk]

Missouri is not good but they beat us. K-State is not good but they beat us. South Dalota State? Really? KU will name the score; it will be however bad Self wants it to be.

Of course, saying KSU and Missouri are not good is sort of a relative thing. I'd call them a "tweener" as they are up and down.

Missouri has won at Pitt and at Minnesota while losing to ranked teams like Illinois, Memphis, and Kansas along with a reasonably good Seton Hall (they just beat UConn) but had a lossy 1-point loss to Jackson St.

K-State had a loss to a reasonably good Nebraska. What made it bad was being at home and totally falling apart in the 2nd half after having the lead at half. Beyond that, they lost to 2 teams that were ranked at the time in USC and Miami. They do have good wins in Providence and Villanova. Oh yeah, they beat a team by 23 we lost to (S Dakota St).

[WuDrWu]

Talk of KSU being "not good" are silly. They are a good team. They are not last year's Elite 8 good, but they are top 75 ish good. And yes, that's better than us.

But, as pessimistic as I've been (and as much as I hate the direction of college athletics, especially basketball and football) I saw this game as encouraging.

First, in 2 weeks we've added 2 rotation players. It's not that they are all world (they aren't) but they are good players that A)give us more options in a variety of ways B)both tend to make other players better and C)take stress and wear and tear off the other 7 rotation players.

And with Bijan, he gives us a ball handler that we've seriously lacked and will need to be competitive going forward. Was he out of control at times? Sure. It was day 1. Remember Beverly early in the season? A turnover machine and now he's so solid. I trust Bijan will follow a similar trajectory. And unlike Ronnie (who I really like), Bijan doesn't duplicate another player...he's a true addition to ability for this team.

If we can stay healthy with this 9, I believe they have every chance to be competitive in this conference (outside Memphis and FAU. Both those teams will boat race us, they're just that talented). They play hard and I believe HCPM will get them to play together, focusing on their strengths and limiting their weaknesses.

This team is better than I thought they'd be, and they now have a chance to be even better than that with a full team. Let's see how it plays out. The only things I'm really concerned about are injuries and the slight possibility of Coach "losing" the team. You can see some frustration out there and the frustration is somewhat justified (especially considering the 5 on 7 game vs KSU) but if they can hang in there and get a little success, they have a chance to move forward.

The one thing that this team won't overcome is their lack of strength. We were pushed around all over KC. It will be worse next week, and when we play FAU and Memphis and several other teams. You can get away with not being the strongest if you're the fastest team or the highest leaping team....we are none of the 3 and it's painfully evident.


Merry Christmas everyone.

[asiseeit]

Always enjoy Wu's posts and analysis. I actually have some concerns chemistry wise with the add of two players. I think it could have a negative impact on IA, DR and possibly XB as they see their previous roles somewhat diminshed.......especially DR and IA. I thought I may have noticed some of that vs KSU. What do YOU think Wu? Can Mills get them to play at their previous levels??

[jcdshocker]

I think DeGray and Cortes bring attributes to the team that we previously lacked. A pure point guard and toughness. The depth that two more players brings cannot be underestimated either. The team is better than most fans anticipated. Are we close to FAU or MEM? No, we are not. But I think with the current team on the floor, we have a chance to be 3,4 or 5 in the league. I will be shocked if we are not in the top half and above .500 in league play.

We do lack physical strength compared to our opponents we will face the rest of the year. Playing tired exasperates our weaknesses. Keeping playing time minutes under 30 for everyone will keep us fresher down the stretch.

[Kung Wu]

We're gonna suck for awhile, but we might just be the team nobody in the post season conference tournament wants to run into ('cept FAU and Memphis).

[Atxshoxfan]

Always enjoy Wu's posts and analysis. I actually have some concerns chemistry wise with the add of two players. I think it could have a negative impact on IA, DR and possibly XB as they see their previous roles somewhat diminshed.......especially DR and IA. I thought I may have noticed some of that vs KSU. What do YOU think Wu? Can Mills get them to play at their previous levels??

Players can either pout and cry or they can man up and fight for pt. Competition is good.

[asiseeit]

Players can either pout and cry or they can man up and fight for pt. Competition is good.

Agree, but not totally. Only one game but DR and IA in 25 combined minutes went 1-4 with four rebounds and a TO. They didn't show me much fire. Losers in "competition" tend to either hang their heads, pout as you put it, OR try to hard by taking bad shots trying to reearn that PT they once had. Remains to be seen with these two, maybe three, in future games. One game does NOT tell the story. BTW, BC, IA and DR went a combined 1-9, 0-4 threes, six rebounds with 3 assists and five TO's in 38 total minutes...............but lets blame the loss on KP

[Woodrow]

Talk of KSU being "not good" are silly. They are a good team. They are not last year's Elite 8 good, but they are top 75 ish good. And yes, that's better than us.

But, as pessimistic as I've been (and as much as I hate the direction of college athletics, especially basketball and football) I saw this game as encouraging.

First, in 2 weeks we've added 2 rotation players. It's not that they are all world (they aren't) but they are good players that A)give us more options in a variety of ways B)both tend to make other players better and C)take stress and wear and tear off the other 7 rotation players.

And with Bijan, he gives us a ball handler that we've seriously lacked and will need to be competitive going forward. Was he out of control at times? Sure. It was day 1. Remember Beverly early in the season? A turnover machine and now he's so solid. I trust Bijan will follow a similar trajectory. And unlike Ronnie (who I really like), Bijan doesn't duplicate another player...he's a true addition to ability for this team.

If we can stay healthy with this 9, I believe they have every chance to be competitive in this conference (outside Memphis and FAU. Both those teams will boat race us, they're just that talented). They play hard and I believe HCPM will get them to play together, focusing on their strengths and limiting their weaknesses.

This team is better than I thought they'd be, and they now have a chance to be even better than that with a full team. Let's see how it plays out. The only things I'm really concerned about are injuries and the slight possibility of Coach "losing" the team. You can see some frustration out there and the frustration is somewhat justified (especially considering the 5 on 7 game vs KSU) but if they can hang in there and get a little success, they have a chance to move forward.

The one thing that this team won't overcome is their lack of strength. We were pushed around all over KC. It will be worse next week, and when we play FAU and Memphis and several other teams. You can get away with not being the strongest if you're the fastest team or the highest leaping team....we are none of the 3 and it's painfully evident.


Merry Christmas everyone.

I agree with pretty much everything. I do wonder if we'll get boatraced in all 4 games against FAU, and Memphis. It's certainly possible, but Bryant beat FAU and Memphis nearly lost to a bad Vanderbilt team and lost to Ole Miss who is 80 in Kenpom. Hopefully we can be competitive and maybe even pull one out. I would love to beat Memphis.

[Topshock]

I agree with pretty much everything. I do wonder if we'll get boatraced in all 4 games against FAU, and Memphis. It's certainly possible, but Bryant beat FAU and Memphis nearly lost to a bad Vanderbilt team and lost to Ole Miss who is 80 in Kenpom. Hopefully we can be competitive and maybe even pull one out. I would love to beat Memphis.

From my observation, Memphis obviously has a lot of talent, but they don't seem to like each other much or play together very well.

[WuShock16]

From my observation, Memphis obviously has a lot of talent, but they don't seem to like each other much or play together very well.

Here is my stunned face.

[pogo]

Well the Dr’s post helped make the holiday better for me. It just seemed the good Dr was in a dark place for awhile lately. I hate to see any fan of our Shockers seem so out of sorts. The Doc is as heavily invested in WSU as anyone else on or off this board but lately he just seemed to be down on the present and future of not just basketball but also several others. Perhaps it has been to the changes in leadership at WSU which always brings an amount of uncertainty but maybe the lack of leadership by the people that have been replaced and the lack of any leadership by the ncaa. I worry about the future of collegiate sports as a whole with the power shifting even more to the biggest and best funded entities. It used to be that one could aspire to greatness in sports if you worked hard and had some talent but if you can now go out and literally buy talent it just leaves the rest of the lesser echelons nothing but a bitterness towards this current reality. So yes Doc's most recent posting with an emerging return to his usual though measured optimism has made my holiday mo' bettah. I believe that with the current leadership now in place WSU can and will succeed in this new and changing environment if we all remain focused on the continued support of our University. A merry Christmas to All. Go Shocks

[molly jabali]

Talk of KSU being "not good" are silly. They are a good team. They are not last year's Elite 8 good, but they are top 75 ish good. And yes, that's better than us.

But, as pessimistic as I've been (and as much as I hate the direction of college athletics, especially basketball and football) I saw this game as encouraging.

First, in 2 weeks we've added 2 rotation players. It's not that they are all world (they aren't) but they are good players that A)give us more options in a variety of ways B)both tend to make other players better and C)take stress and wear and tear off the other 7 rotation players.

And with Bijan, he gives us a ball handler that we've seriously lacked and will need to be competitive going forward. Was he out of control at times? Sure. It was day 1. Remember Beverly early in the season? A turnover machine and now he's so solid. I trust Bijan will follow a similar trajectory. And unlike Ronnie (who I really like), Bijan doesn't duplicate another player...he's a true addition to ability for this team.

If we can stay healthy with this 9, I believe they have every chance to be competitive in this conference (outside Memphis and FAU. Both those teams will boat race us, they're just that talented). They play hard and I believe HCPM will get them to play together, focusing on their strengths and limiting their weaknesses.

This team is better than I thought they'd be, and they now have a chance to be even better than that with a full team. Let's see how it plays out. The only things I'm really concerned about are injuries and the slight possibility of Coach "losing" the team. You can see some frustration out there and the frustration is somewhat justified (especially considering the 5 on 7 game vs KSU) but if they can hang in there and get a little success, they have a chance to move forward.

The one thing that this team won't overcome is their lack of strength. We were pushed around all over KC. It will be worse next week, and when we play FAU and Memphis and several other teams. You can get away with not being the strongest if you're the fastest team or the highest leaping team....we are none of the 3 and it's painfully evident.


Merry Christmas everyone.

To my favorite poster and long time friend… love your analysis , love your levelheaded ness , treasure your friendship… merry Christmas to you as well

[asiseeit]

To my favorite poster and long time friend… love your analysis , love your levelheaded ness , treasure your friendship… merry Christmas to you as well

Have you and Wu given any thought to my last couple posts re team chemistry with the addition of TWO new players? How are IA and DR going to react to diminished PT ?

[Dan]

Have you and Wu given any thought to my last couple posts re team chemistry with the addition of TWO new players? How are IA and DR going to react to diminished PT ?

Does it really matter how they react? DR is gone after this season. Both players have to perform to get on the court. This is high level basketball.

[SubGod22]

This is high level basketball.

Is it though?