WICHITA STATE (4-0) vs LIBERTY (3-0) Pregame Discussion

[Woodrow]

Liberty played later than we did last night so they have a shorter recovery than our guys. Their main guard played 37 minutes and Rogers played 37 minutes. XBell played 34 minutes. Beverly only played 22 minutes. Fatigue should not be a factor for us any more than it will be for them. Park Quincy under the basket and swat everything out when they drive in. Hug the other 4 guys on the perimeter who shoot 3's. Rebound, rebound, rebound. If we do, I like our chances. Shocks win this one.

[1972Shocker]

SCOUTING LIBERTY
• Led by 11th year head coach Ritchie McKay, Liberty enters the 2023-24 campaign with a lot of buzz. The Flames are coming off a 27-9 record a season ago and were picked to win the CUSA in the preseason poll.
• This is the third straight year Liberty has been picked to finish first in its league's preseason polls.
• Flames redshirt senior forward Kyle Rode has been tabbed to the 2023-24 CUSA Men's Basketball Preseason All-Conference team.
• Liberty has been one of the most successful programs in the country over the last five seasons. During that span, Liberty has won 131 games, which ranks fourth most in the country. The Flames are 131-37 overall in those five years for a .780 winning percentage.
• In 11 seasons, McKay has compiled a 229-113 record and an overall record of 394-271 in 22 seasons with stops at New Mexico, Oregon State, Colorado State and Portland State.
• Liberty is 3-0 entering the Myrtle Beach Invitational with wins over Mid-Atlantic Christian (103-43), Charlotte (71-59) and Furman (88-74)
• Preseason All-Conference selection Kyle Rode is shooting 50.0 percent from 3-point range to go with a team-best 17.0 points per game.
• Brody Peebles is averaging 16.3 points per game off the bench and shooting 42.1 percent from beyond the arc.

https://goshockers.com/news/2023/11/16/mens-basketball-mbb-preview-vs-liberty-nov-17.aspx

[newshock1234]

Liberty primary plays 7 guys just like us

[WuDrWu]

Most athletic contests are decided by which person or team can exert their "will" more effectively on the other team. It doesn't always happen, but there's a reason people say "it's not about the Xs and the Os, it's about the Jimmys and the Joes".

That's why the NBA is mostly made up of exceptional athletes that are uber skilled and often very intelligent. The best of the best.....of the best (sir).

Liberty can't exert physical size and strength over us. They go 6'7, 6'7, 6'3, 5'10, 5'9 to start and 6'7, 6'7, 6'2 off the bench.

They can exert skill advantage. The can all shoot and score the heck out of the ball, and our guys, especially our big guys are going to find this group insanely quick. They are clearly well coached and won't make many mental errors.

We must find a way (or ways) to exploit the one thing they can't combat...our size. This better be lob city tonight. Either X shoots about 20 driving layups/short floaters or he throws it high to Q/Ike/Ridgnal for 10+ dunks. We must challenge them in the paint with size and depth and strength.

The real trouble for us is going to be how Q and Kenny guard anybody on the other end. Clearly we don't want either but most certainly Q chasing anyone outside the lane much less around the 3. Not only is that a weakness, it takes away from him denying people at the cup. Keeping away from that (and wearing down and getting tired doing it) is my biggest worry of the game. If we can defend them, we should be in good shape. If they dictate play, we're in deep doo doo.

If we can find a way to make them uncomfortable vs our size and athleticism, I like our chances. WSU +3X seems about right to me.


I want to think about this a little, but Coastal getting 10X from Furman seems enticing at least. Our 9 point win was not indicative of the difference, in my opinion. Furman is still missing one of their better players.

[WuDrWu]

Bolded part also leads to foul trouble. If we can stay out of foul trouble, I think we have a decent chance. Especially if we keep shooting decent from 3. If we get even 1 player in foul trouble, it can unravel very quickly.

As will be the case all season, I'm afraid. One guy getting in foul trouble is going to mean almost certain death for this group. The margin for error is and will remain, razor thin.

[AZ Shocker]

Good scout Doc! Let's go Shocks!!! Lob it X!!! There's 20-25 points there for the taking if you can get it up for Q to feast!!!

[asiseeit]

I think I would put a man on their three best shooters on the floor and keep our bigs 3-7 feet from the hoop in a two man zone around the basket. Guard their shooters close on the perimeter and if they do drive by our defender we have plenty of help in the paint. Can't give their shooters space. So far, % of money and bets are almost 80% on Liberty

[Kung Wu]

Does anybody else have "LIBERTY LIBERTY LIIIIB-erty" playing in their brain over and over and over? I can't get that freakin commercial jingle out of my head!! DAMN YOU LIBERTY MUTUAL!!!

[WuDrWu]

Does anybody else have "LIBERTY LIBERTY LIIIIB-erty" playing in their brain over and over and over? I can't get that freakin commercial jingle out of my head!! DAMN YOU LIBERTY MUTUAL!!!

No doubt.


I also feel the need to hear more about Jardiance's story. Apparently, it's a big story. And they want to tell it. But if it is a big story, why just the tease? Tell it's story. I mean, I'm glad people are lowering their A1C, but I NEED to know the underlying story now!

[SubGod22]

Does anybody else have "LIBERTY LIBERTY LIIIIB-erty" playing in their brain over and over and over? I can't get that freakin commercial jingle out of my head!! DAMN YOU LIBERTY MUTUAL!!!

Hadn't even thought about it until you mentioned it.

[1972Shocker]

Another possibility would be to alternate KP and QB some in this game and go with a smaller more athletic lineup. Perhaps a little less KP and QB and a little more DR and IA. Perhaps pair KP and IA together more and QB and DR more. Of course with only 7 players foul trouble and the flow of the game can limit your flexibility.

[ShockBand]

Most athletic contests are decided by which person or team can exert their "will" more effectively on the other team. It doesn't always happen, but there's a reason people say "it's not about the Xs and the Os, it's about the Jimmys and the Joes".

That's why the NBA is mostly made up of exceptional athletes that are uber skilled and often very intelligent. The best of the best.....of the best (sir).

Liberty can't exert physical size and strength over us. They go 6'7, 6'7, 6'3, 5'10, 5'9 to start and 6'7, 6'7, 6'2 off the bench.

They can exert skill advantage. The can all shoot and score the heck out of the ball, and our guys, especially our big guys are going to find this group insanely quick. They are clearly well coached and won't make many mental errors.

We must find a way (or ways) to exploit the one thing they can't combat...our size. This better be lob city tonight. Either X shoots about 20 driving layups/short floaters or he throws it high to Q/Ike/Ridgnal for 10+ dunks. We must challenge them in the paint with size and depth and strength.

The real trouble for us is going to be how Q and Kenny guard anybody on the other end. Clearly we don't want either but most certainly Q chasing anyone outside the lane much less around the 3. Not only is that a weakness, it takes away from him denying people at the cup. Keeping away from that (and wearing down and getting tired doing it) is my biggest worry of the game. If we can defend them, we should be in good shape. If they dictate play, we're in deep doo doo.

If we can find a way to make them uncomfortable vs our size and athleticism, I like our chances. WSU +3X seems about right to me.


I want to think about this a little, but Coastal getting 10X from Furman seems enticing at least. Our 9 point win was not indicative of the difference, in my opinion. Furman is still missing one of their better players.

WITH HONORS!

[Kung Wu]

I also feel the need to hear more about Jardiance's story. Apparently, it's a big story. And they want to tell it. But if it is a big story, why just the tease? Tell it's story. I mean, I'm glad people are lowering their A1C, but I NEED to know the underlying story now!

LMAO

[newshock1234]

Another possibility would be to alternate KP and QB some in this game and go with a smaller more athletic lineup. Perhaps a little less KP and QB and a little more. Perhaps pair KP and IA together more and QB and DR more. Of course with only 7 players foul trouble and the flow of the game can limit your flexibility.

I know they say don't let the opponent dictate how you play but, this may be the way to go. Not sure what the metrics say but i feel like so far we are a better team with Rigndal mixed in with Abidde on the floor.

[WuDrWu]

Just something to think about:


Does it matter if a new coach wins in his first year? Is winning that first year a BAD sign?


The 2 best coaches in the history of our program lost in their first season at WSU. Gregg Marshall was 11-20 and Ralph Miller was 11-20. Go 2 deeper and Gene Smithson was 15-15 and Mark Turgeon was 9-19. Does a slow start indicate future success then?

The best records for 1st year coaches belong to Gary Thompson 21-9, Eddie Fogler 21-11 and Isaac Brown 16-6. Does early success lend itself to problems later down the line? Randy was 14-13 his 1st season...Harry Miller was 16-10. Certainly that is a group that lacks much backing as to being good from most people.