Wichita State: vs South Florida (03/05/23)

[ShockerExpress]

You know what's non-biased....the w-l record

Lol yeah ignore those pesky analytics and dig your head in the sand!!

[SB Shock]

Our Torvick rank for the season is 87th. If you sort the entire country since Feb. 1… we are 47th.

If you want to close your eyes and not face reality go ahead. But there’s a concrete non-biased ranking system.

KenPom outlook for WSU was 83 at the start of the season, WSU finished 104. I have seen WSU teams that were 47th in the country - they actually were pretty salty and won against quality competition. WSU is 0-5 against Quadrant 1 teams.

This team is not building for next year, it will be probably be entirely different team.

[ShockerExpress]

KenPom outlook for WSU was 83 at the start of the season, WSU finished 104. I have seen WSU teams that were 47th in the country - they actually were pretty salty and won against quality competition. WSU is 0-5 against Quadrant 1 teams.

This team is not building for next year, it will be probably be entirely different team.

I have a pretty good feeling if you could sort KenPom by date it would show basically the same thing as Torvick

No one is arguing this team is good.

But this is a top-50ish team the last 4-6 weeks. If you deny that then you’re just not seeing reality.

[Atxshoxfan]

I believe everyone on this site saw improvement the last half of the year. But we also saw 1.5 years of terrible team ball previous to this 1/2 season of improvement. Couple that with player turnover and mediocre recruiting and you get exactly what we have
The key is player retention of the core and upgrade of the bench. Even with those 2 things going right, point guard could be an issue if not addressed in recruiting.

So ADKS should be talking to the primary players to feel their attitude toward sticking to WSU and or coach Brown, then do what he feels best. He should also be checking behind the scenes for potential coaches interest levels.

It's a major decision and probably one that will define his career.

[Woodrow]

IB needed to make the tournament this year and we aren't close. Saal needs to take care of business as soon as we lose our last game. I was disappointed that IB didn't put the walkons in at the end of the game. They work hard in practice all year long and he could have rewarded them with a 20 point lead and less than 2 minutes to go.

[ShockTalk]

The key is player retention of the core and upgrade of the bench. Even with those 2 things going right, point guard could be an issue if not addressed in recruiting.

Retaining Walton, Pohto, Myles, and Rogers and not losing more than 1 of Pierre, Abidde, and Bell is a must if we are to keep HCIB (assuming finances are not the driving issue). With that group, a quality PG or 2 should be attainable. Otherwise, it's probably time to cut bait.

[Aargh]

The financial reality could leave a lot of SN'ers disappointed and upset with Saal. If Saal can figure out a way to pay 3 basketball coaches, 2 baseball coaches, and two athletic directors all at the same time, that would be a miraculous accomplishment.

The expectation of a miracle will often lead to disappointment.

It could be a couple of years to dig out of this mess.

[silk]

The Walk On’s told Brown in November, they wanted to redshirt this year. I expect the two freshman Walk On’s to enter Portal right after Abidde and Ricks. This means there will be a minimum of seven new players next year, and we have one signed recruit.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

I believe everyone on this site saw improvement the last half of the year. But we also saw 1.5 years of terrible team ball previous to this 1/2 season of improvement. Couple that with player turnover and mediocre recruiting and you get exactly what we have
The key is player retention of the core and upgrade of the bench. Even with those 2 things going right, point guard could be an issue if not addressed in recruiting.

So ADKS should be talking to the primary players to feel their attitude toward sticking to WSU and or coach Brown, then do what he feels best. He should also be checking behind the scenes for potential coaches interest levels.

It's a major decision and probably one that will define his career.

Your approach makes sense, but I am wondering if we have the $$$ to buy IB out and get a really good coach. I'd like to hear from someone who might think we have sufficient money to do this.

[Shockm]

I have a pretty good feeling if you could sort KenPom by date it would show basically the same thing as Torvick

No one is arguing this team is good.

But this is a top-50ish team the last 4-6 weeks. If you deny that then you’re just not seeing reality.

So if we are a Top 50ish team the last 4-6 weeks, then how low were we the first 6-8 weeks. Too bad that doesn’t matter. All the experts just say our program still sucks.

[proshox]

Like others… I assume the program doesn’t return to yearly tournament runs unless major changes are made.

With that stated, I would have put a lot of money on the table that this team would finish the season without as much as a whimper (based on the first two months of the season).

The turnaround in “actual play” gives me pause and makes me wonder if Coach IB is figuring “Head Coaching”
out as I wasn’t impressed by the team that won the American, or last year’s version, and the first half of the season was some of the worst played basketball I can remember seeing. So much of what this team does well doesn’t come close to happening without high level coaching.

Overall… my eye test and metrics pretty much point to a really good top four (Craig, JW, JR, and CP) with a confidence problem when it came to closing out teams at home. IMO, the team is short one starter caliber guard (the combo of JPJ, Bell, MF, SS were likely to kill the team on any given night) - maybe that guy was NCAA-forced to sit all year. Also, Coach IB often misses coaching opportunities in late game situations (like not realizing we have lots of fouls to give that could be utilized to turn up defensive pressure or foul trying). Maybe things go significantly different if WSU has a full roster and gets a little more fortune early in the season (confidence goes a long ways).


Now the important part - Craig deserved better. He was insanely good this year. He will go down as one of my all time favorite shockers. I just can’t remember a player who made so many aspects of basketball look easy. I am glad I got to attend his senior day (it was nice to see all seniors have good moments today).l!

[ShockerFever]

I have a pretty good feeling if you could sort KenPom by date it would show basically the same thing as Torvick

No one is arguing this team is good.

But this is a top-50ish team the last 4-6 weeks. If you deny that then you’re just not seeing reality.

lol Top 50ish? And you're calling that reality?

Win a meaningful game against a meaningful "top 50" team and then come talk to me.

[N Crestway]

No kidding. Those mongoloids up North fired an Orange Bowl winning coach. But, that's why they're mongoloids...

The firing of Marshall and Mangino have a lot of similarities. Both coaches were "mean" to players and both AD's involved were incompetent or corrupt. You remember Perkins. Perkins was the AD who killed football at WSU before going to KU. Among other things he hated Mangino and more or less conducted a personal vendetta to get him fired. In the case of both Marshall and Mangino, their programs were beginning to fail due to player dissatisfaction with the tough, boot camp style of coaching.

[Ashockalypse]

The firing of Marshall and Mangino have a lot of similarities. Both coaches were "mean" to players and both AD's involved were incompetent or corrupt. You remember Perkins. Perkins was the AD who killed football at WSU before going to KU. Among other things he hated Mangino and more or less conducted a personal vendetta to get him fired. In the case of both Marshall and Mangino, their programs were beginning to fail due to player dissatisfaction with the tough, boot camp style of coaching.

GTFO, we don’t need a cheating buzzard to come on here and tell us how are team that was headed for the tournament was starting to fail. The buzzards would be nowhere if you weren’t handing out cash filled envelopes and buying cars for freshman to wreck that would never pass a class. Just go. The only thing failing is any of your Bs analysis.

[another shocker]

Like others… I assume the program doesn’t return to yearly tournament runs unless major changes are made.

With that stated, I would have put a lot of money on the table that this team would finish the season without as much as a whimper (based on the first two months of the season).

The turnaround in “actual play” gives me pause and makes me wonder if Coach IB is figuring “Head Coaching”
out as I wasn’t impressed by the team that won the American, or last year’s version, and the first half of the season was some of the worst played basketball I can remember seeing. So much of what this team does well doesn’t come close to happening without high level coaching.

Overall… my eye test and metrics pretty much point to a really good top four (Craig, JW, JR, and CP) with a confidence problem when it came to closing out teams at home. IMO, the team is short one starter caliber guard (the combo of JPJ, Bell, MF, SS were likely to kill the team on any given night) - maybe that guy was NCAA-forced to sit all year. Also, Coach IB often misses coaching opportunities in late game situations (like not realizing we have lots of fouls to give that could be utilized to turn up defensive pressure or foul trying). Maybe things go significantly different if WSU has a full roster and gets a little more fortune early in the season (confidence goes a long ways).


Now the important part - Craig deserved better. He was insanely good this year. He will go down as one of my all time favorite shockers. I just can’t remember a player who made so many aspects of basketball look easy. I am glad I got to attend his senior day (it was nice to see all seniors have good moments today).l!

one trait from those 90's teams, nearly all of them: they got worse as the season progressed. that's when i learned, i hate to say, the mark of truly bad coaching: they get worse as the season goes on.

i'm anxious to see what happens when jaykwon returns. who knows?