Just how loaded are we??!!

[ShockTalk]

I don't want Wiggins backing up Early at SF and want him to be playing primarily SG. Early should spend most if not all his time at SF. I was just throwing out a possibility if trying to find PT for another guard.

So you think Armstead, FVV, Mitchell, DWill, Cotton, and Baker will divide up the remaining 60 minutes at PG and SG if Wiggins plays 20 at SG. I'll assume Mitchell gets 0, DWill 20, and Armstead 20, that would leave just less than 7 minutes a piece for Cotton, FVV, and Baker.

For Early to play mostly all SF and Wiggins mostly SG, at least one, if not all three of the following will need to happen. 1) EO and Lufile play well enough to keep Hall at the PF, 2) Early and Wiggins will need to shoot the 3 very well, and/or 3) both play lock-down D at those positions.

I'm not sure EO and Lufile can keep Hall from playing at least 15 minutes at the post. So if he plays another 10+ at PF, White could eat up 10-15, leaving Early with about 10 minutes at PF. If Early then plays another 20 at SF, Wiggins may be the one to see most of the remaining 20 at SF. If Early doesn't shoot the 3 that well or has difficulty guarding smaller SFs that would also move him to the PF some. If Wiggins doesn't shoot the 3 well or is not very strong a D, he may just see less time.

As time goes on, FVV will move DWill from the backup PG to mostly SG. We know what kind of D Cotton plays and he seems to have a pretty good 3 ball. The reverse is expected of Baker as he may be our 3 point sniper and he seems to play good D. All this moves Wiggins more to SF or less time than we may think.

[Aargh]

What I found most interesting about Sully's blog was that there seems to be a rivalry building between Green and Early.

Didn't anyone tell Green that Early was the D3 JuCo POY last year and the overall JuCo PoY this year? If Green is the guy pushing Early this summer, and the general consensus is that Green is a likely RS, then Green is starting to look like a 6'7" version of Couisnard with better shooting range. I could handle that. Might even help us get some more players out of Houston.

Maybe, if we're really lucky and Grteen has the attitude he might have by going after Early, Green is wondering whether it's going to be Early or Wiggins sitting on the bench because he's going to be getting minutes. I'm not yet going to mention a former Shocker who had that attitude.

[forevershockerfan]

X marks the spot. If summer play was the common denominator of what the future would bring, then Armstead, Baker,Hall, and Wiggins have impressed me the most. However, here is the beauty of all this. All Shocker players have had some very fine moments this summer as well. Yes, all of them. Coach Marshall will be perplexed at times as to who to play and when, which is a cool problem (luxury) some other Shocker Coaches in time past have not had to endure near so much.

What does it all mean? We are deeeeep, very deep and that's good. How long will it take for our awesome mix of quality depth to come together to replace the talented and vast experienced 5 Seniors we had before? When was the last time the Shocks had 5 talented Seniors that were so experienced? Stay tuned but this Season's ride will be a thriller to behold. Can u dig it? Groovy!!!!!!!

[SubGod22]

So you think Armstead, FVV, Mitchell, DWill, Cotton, and Baker will divide up the remaining 60 minutes at PG and SG if Wiggins plays 20 at SG. I'll assume Mitchell gets 0, DWill 20, and Armstead 20, that would leave just less than 7 minutes a piece for Cotton, FVV, and Baker.

For Early to play mostly all SF and Wiggins mostly SG, at least one, if not all three of the following will need to happen. 1) EO and Lufile play well enough to keep Hall at the PF, 2) Early and Wiggins will need to shoot the 3 very well, and/or 3) both play lock-down D at those positions.

I'm not sure EO and Lufile can keep Hall from playing at least 15 minutes at the post. So if he plays another 10+ at PF, White could eat up 10-15, leaving Early with about 10 minutes at PF. If Early then plays another 20 at SF, Wiggins may be the one to see most of the remaining 20 at SF. If Early doesn't shoot the 3 that well or has difficulty guarding smaller SFs that would also move him to the PF some. If Wiggins doesn't shoot the 3 well or is not very strong a D, he may just see less time.

As time goes on, FVV will move DWill from the backup PG to mostly SG. We know what kind of D Cotton plays and he seems to have a pretty good 3 ball. The reverse is expected of Baker as he may be our 3 point sniper and he seems to play good D. All this moves Wiggins more to SF or less time than we may think.

I'm not saying Wiggins doesn't play any SF. I'm saying he spends more time at SG is ideal.

I haven't seen the guys play this summer. But I could still see a scenario with FVV as a RS. I know that's extremely unpopular here though. I'll throw out possible numbers and see where they end up.

PG - Armstead - 20, DWill 10, Cotton 10
SG - DWill 13, Wiggins 15, Cotton 5, Baker 7
SF - Early 23, Wiggins 8, Baker/Wessel 9
PF - Hall 24, White 16
C - Ehimen 20, Lufile 20

These are just general numbers, but for FVV to play, Baker and/or Cotton will be on the bench instead. If Baker can shoot like has been said, I see him getting PT as we don't have a sniper otherwise. We have some good shooters, but nothing like he could provide. Cotton plays tremendous D, is a solid shooter and doesn't turn the ball over. Sitting him is hard for me to believe right now. And I could see the benefit of a RS for FVV to learn and grow and be able to take over once Armstead and DWill graduate opening up a lot of minutes. If you don't see DWill playing much point to free up minutes for FVV, then Cotton and/or Baker get bumped again. I don't see Wessel getting any time based off of last year, but if he's improved enough, I could see him getting some spot minutes at SF if need be. That's the only reason I mentioned his name there. I wouldn't be opposed to him taking a RS this year as he should have done it last season. I see Green RSing for the same reason I'd like to see FVV RS. Too much depth on the outside. Although Green is also supposed to be a tremendous outside shooter. I'm not expecting normal playing time from Mitchell. But I think there's one other guard that's going to be left out of any kind of rotation. Baker already used his RS. I'd like to see one of the others use one and only one makes sense to me. Not sure it would happen, but that's my thinking right now.

[Dave Stalwart]

Yeah after that you start running into things like losing people to transfer. I really hope Mitchell came home for the reason he said, to be home. He and Wessel might be in for some disappointment otherwise, and I had really hoped they would be successful here. The water is very murky. The Kansas part of me wants those two and Baker to really do some work, not sit too much and then transfer and have a crappy college career. On the other hand, I would obviously just like to have a great team, and whoever can do that is who I want, all sentiment aside. That team is probably going to be mostly the juco stars (ch, ce, nw) the experienced seniors (dw, ma) and a handful of variables like emerging talents. It's hard for me to think cotton, fvv, orukpe, lufile, mitchell & white aren't the ones to watch. Is baker really better than mitchell? I can't figure out what to do with mitchell. He was supposed to be petty good. My head is spinning.

[forevershockerfan]

Here are the 3 that seem to be the most over all consistent outside shooters this summer when I attended scrimmages. Baker, Wiggins, and Mitchell. However, I was told by somebody that witnessed more summer scrimmages than me that Armstead is quite a sharp-shooter but does not shoot lots of outside shots in these games. Also, FVV is still a solid shooter and I believe our very best passer. The last scrimmage I witnessed, Mr. White and Wiggins were lighting it up from both the inside and out and Chadrack was not only scoring but making some sweet passes to guards for the open J's or layups.

Armstead is maybe our best defender but Hall and Cotton are looking good on that front. So all of this may make the perplexities of sorting this out all the more complex? If so, then "cool beans" because what we got here is lots of competitive quality depth, skills, and talents that can replicate to our ability to find creative ways to win games once it all comes together. How much time will that take? Dunno, but I hope by Valley time, it manifests itself and peaks as we march to the Lew and to March when it really matters.

[shoxtop]

What I found most interesting about Sully's blog was that there seems to be a rivalry building between Green and Early.

Didn't anyone tell Green that Early was the D3 JuCo POY last year and the overall JuCo PoY this year? If Green is the guy pushing Early this summer, and the general consensus is that Green is a likely RS, then Green is starting to look like a 6'7" version of Couisnard with better shooting range. I could handle that. Might even help us get some more players out of Houston.

Maybe, if we're really lucky and Grteen has the attitude he might have by going after Early, Green is wondering whether it's going to be Early or Wiggins sitting on the bench because he's going to be getting minutes. I'm not yet going to mention a former Shocker who had that attitude.

I don't believe AJ Hawkins was where you were going with this, but it seems just as likely to me at this point....

[pinstripers]

If we play "40 minutes of hell," everything sorts itself out.

[SubGod22]

If we play "40 minutes of hell," everything sorts itself out.

Even then, a couple of people are still getting left out.

[Aargh]

The team will definitely be able to risk fouling on D. Especially the perimeter guys. The Shox may play classic SIU ugly ball on D. When you throw in the way the Shox play transition out of "Ugly Ball D", it's not all that ugly. With Orukpe or Lufile waiting for anyone driving the lane and no danger of getting the team in problems by fouling, the perimeter guys can go a little crazy on D.

Lose your guy going for a steal? We got a guy there for that. Get into foul trouble playing pressure D? We got a guy there for that. Go at absolute maximum full throttle and get wionded in 8 minutes of game time? We got a guy there for that.

I think this will all work itself out pretty well. A 5-in, 5-out rotation and spot situational minutes pretty much gets everybody on the court. Unless someone really lights it up, the top end of minutes played could be in the very low 20's.

[wufan]

I'm not saying Wiggins doesn't play any SF. I'm saying he spends more time at SG is ideal.

I haven't seen the guys play this summer. But I could still see a scenario with FVV as a RS. I know that's extremely unpopular here though. I'll throw out possible numbers and see where they end up.

PG - Armstead - 20, DWill 10, Cotton 10
SG - DWill 13, Wiggins 15, Cotton 5, Baker 7
SF - Early 23, Wiggins 8, Baker/Wessel 9
PF - Hall 24, White 16
C - Ehimen 20, Lufile 20

These are just general numbers, but for FVV to play, Baker and/or Cotton will be on the bench instead. If Baker can shoot like has been said, I see him getting PT as we don't have a sniper otherwise. We have some good shooters, but nothing like he could provide. Cotton plays tremendous D, is a solid shooter and doesn't turn the ball over. Sitting him is hard for me to believe right now. And I could see the benefit of a RS for FVV to learn and grow and be able to take over once Armstead and DWill graduate opening up a lot of minutes. If you don't see DWill playing much point to free up minutes for FVV, then Cotton and/or Baker get bumped again. I don't see Wessel getting any time based off of last year, but if he's improved enough, I could see him getting some spot minutes at SF if need be. That's the only reason I mentioned his name there. I wouldn't be opposed to him taking a RS this year as he should have done it last season. I see Green RSing for the same reason I'd like to see FVV RS. Too much depth on the outside. Although Green is also supposed to be a tremendous outside shooter. I'm not expecting normal playing time from Mitchell. But I think there's one other guard that's going to be left out of any kind of rotation. Baker already used his RS. I'd like to see one of the others use one and only one makes sense to me. Not sure it would happen, but that's my thinking right now.

I actually see it being much more likely that Baker gets left out of the rotation rather than FVV getting a RS. Regardless of who redshirts, all but one of Mitchell, Baker, Wessel, Green, and VanVleet will be riding the pine.

Also, although I agree that it would be better to have Wiggins at the SG, I'd rather have him playing SF than Baker/Wessel.

[Dave Stalwart]

Yeah I totally see that. Then I'm back to my question of what do we do about Mitchell. Any other year we would be expecting a guy with his credentials and experience to contribute just like any other juco transfer. Is he really not that good? I haven't seen him play so I'm actually asking. Is it really possible that he won't be contributing much? That is fascinating to me. We talk about our other star jucos like they will be integral to the team. What am I missing here?

[C0|dB|00ded]

Baker will take exactly zero minutes from FVV.

Baker is the prototypical NIU or Purple Pimp player that would burn our asses in the past. He isn't the typical HCGM player. In a game of horse, Baker could beat anybody on our team. But when HCGM turned up the heat in practice and things got very physical, Baker's aim went away. Without Baker shooting bullseyes unconsciously, his weaknesses become quickly apparent.

Baker could be a Colt Ryan-type, getting multiple screens and feasting on open jumpers. But our team isn't going to be built around that style of play. We are physically/athletically superior to every team in the Valley, and it isn't even close. Teams that screen all night long for their hot shooter is out of necessity. We have so many other ways to impose our will.

Could Baker become another Graham Hatch? I doubt it for two reasons; one, GH was the hardest working player Marshall had ever seen, and two, this team is not the same team GH played on. If GH showed up as a freshman today he would see no floor time and probably never have been able to develop as a player like he did during HCGM's first couple of seasons when we were not loaded.

Perhaps Baker can be a spark plug when our coach has to send a message to a player that is "Cadillac--ing".

[pie n eye]

We'll see.

[forevershockerfan]

Baker is a shot- maker and we hope our opponents heart-breaker. He has areas to improve on, but believe this. Baker WILL play his fair share for a Frosh. If our opponents play a packed in zone, get him in there!!! Actually, start who you wish when it comes to our guards. Then put all of our other guards together on the bench. If you then need a guard to sub in, you could put on your blinders and just point at one and we will still be finer than a frog-hair no matter whom you pointed at. We are loaded at the guard position.