Pre-Game Thread: at UCF (12/28/22)

[Stickboy46]

Vastly improved shooting once they leave our program seems to be another trend.

Tends to happen when there are actual offensive plays run ..

[pinstripers]

Nobody is gonna pay money to watch a basketball team score 45.

[Singeril]

Nobody is gonna pay money to watch a basketball team score 45.

Unless you are a fan of the opponent’s team.

[Kung Wu]

We are concerned why a WALK-ON didn't get in for crunch time minutes? Let that tell us all we need to know about the state of the program. Adding insult to injury, he was the best player the SHOX had on the floor last nite. UGH!

He is no average walk-on.

[ShockingButTrue]

A lot of those were because of Etienne..

But certainly not last year, where he did spend some time at the point.

[ShockingButTrue]

I liked UCF’s defense better than ours. No Olay defense from them. Our defense wasn’t very intense (this game for sure). Our offense is worse, which somebody pointed out, but our defense isn’t good either. Maybe you like our defense though. We used to, in past years, play good, tough, in your face defense. Now we play lots of zone defense, don’t move our feet, when we play M/M defense, and don’t rebound. Not very physical.

Well Shockm, WSU did just hold them to their lowest point total of the season. If you look, they've had a decent schedule up to now.

Just puttin' it out there.

[Stickboy46]

But certainly not last year, where he did spend some time at the point.

Correct ... guess i should have more appropriately said .. Etienne at the 2 (with Gilbert at the 1)...

[JVShocker]

I know what you’re saying, and I agree concerning the Stats. However, stats can be misleading. The greatest thing about our defense last night was that UCF missed so many wide open shots. They shot horribly at times. That kept the score MUCH closer.

Sometimes the wide open ones are the toughest ones to make. Not to nitpick because the Shockers have been notoriously bad about missing the open and easy bunnies for a few years now, but some players have air balled (I'm assuming) one 3 pointer a game for the season, most of them wide open. Usually from the same spots in the corner.....

[forevershockerfan]

Yes, I too was wondering why Ricks didn't get to play at all last night. They say he is a good shooter. So why not at least give him a chance?

[Shockm]

Well Shockm, WSU did just hold them to their lowest point total of the season. If you look, they've had a decent schedule up to now.

Just puttin' it out there.

Watch the game again. We never pressure the ball. UCF wasn't ever uncomfortable. They had lots of open shots. We played a lot of zone again, and they converted that into a 7 offensive rebound advantage (even though they shot badly). Now you could say that there are a lot of extra rebounds available when they miss shots, but we shot badly too, and we couldn't rebound those missed shots. That tells me that their defense was more effective, and if you watch, their defense did pressure our offense.

If you are happy with what your eyes tell you, then great. But we weren't great on defense, and we never steal the ball for easy points. UCF may always shoot badly, or maybe yesterday they were terrible shooters. But our defense doesn't pass the eye test, and our offense which is very bad could use some easy buckets. But yes, if your point is that our half court offense is bad, it really is.

[Aargh]

Nobody is gonna pay money to watch a basketball team score 45.

I remember when Hank Iba was coaching at OSU. There was no shot clock. He played stall ball. He played keep away ball. Scores were something like 52-45 and the games were BORING! Now we have a shot clock and scores are still 52-45. The games aren't as boring as back in the old days. Boring has been replaced by UGLY!

I've seen CKA go absolutely nuts when the Shox scored 100. I've never seen the same when they held an opponent under 50.

[Stickboy46]

Watch the game again. We never pressure the ball. UCF wasn't ever uncomfortable. They had lots of open shots. We played a lot of zone again, and they converted that into a 7 offensive rebound advantage (even though they shot badly). Now you could say that there are a lot of extra rebounds available when they miss shots, but we shot badly too, and we couldn't rebound those missed shots. That tells me that their defense was more effective, and if you watch, their defense did pressure our offense.

If you are happy with what your eyes tell you, then great. But we weren't great on defense, and we never steal the ball for easy points. UCF may always shoot badly, or maybe yesterday they were terrible shooters. But our defense doesn't pass the eye test, and our offense which is very bad could use some easy buckets. But yes, if your point is that our half court offense is bad, it really is.

Eye test is easily persuaded by your own (very valid) bias of how poorly this year has gone.

The defense yesterday wasn't the problem ... it hasn't been the problem this year. UCF was definitely uncomfortable. We definitely pressured them. You are correct we don't get steals .. we aren't jumping passing lanes. That's not the only way to play defense. We were good to great on defense .. .every verifiable stat confirms that. (Your personal eye test is not a verifiable stat). We have been good to great on defense all year. We are the 36th ranked defense. 13 opponents this year and we have held teams to 27.5% from 3 (17th best in the country) and 42% from 2 (8th best in the country) for an eFG% of 41.7 (6th best). We are top 50 in Defensive possession length (i.e we make teams take a very long time to get a shot) So you can say we got 13 straight lucky games where the opponent shot poorly or you can focus on the real problem with the team ....We are just abysmal on offense.

Also I don't equate rebounding to defense ... we suck at rebounding .. that's a different topic .. not our defense. The fact that we give up so many rebounds and STILL hold our opponents to a really low scoring output actually says our defense is better.

[Horn28Clem30]

Watch the game again. We never pressure the ball. UCF wasn't ever uncomfortable. They had lots of open shots. We played a lot of zone again, and they converted that into a 7 offensive rebound advantage (even though they shot badly). Now you could say that there are a lot of extra rebounds available when they miss shots, but we shot badly too, and we couldn't rebound those missed shots. That tells me that their defense was more effective, and if you watch, their defense did pressure our offense.

If you are happy with what your eyes tell you, then great. But we weren't great on defense, and we never steal the ball for easy points. UCF may always shoot badly, or maybe yesterday they were terrible shooters. But our defense doesn't pass the eye test, and our offense which is very bad could use some easy buckets. But yes, if your point is that our half court offense is bad, it really is.

Top 20 in scoring defense in the country - tough to argue that based on an eye test. Everyone just has off shooting nights against them? Granted - I understand it helps that games are played a slower pace, but can't argue stats.

[Stickboy46]

Top 20 in scoring defense in the country - tough to argue that based on an eye test. Everyone just has off shooting nights against them? Granted - I understand it helps that games are played a slower pace, but can't argue stats.

Pace does affect overall scoring . but eFG% wise we are up at the top too (6th best) which wouldn't be affected by pace.

[BostonWu]

Also, Bob Homer Hull might want to watch and listen to a replay. I thought the UCF announcers were about as balanced as one could ask for.

Better yet Bob, give the reins to someone else.

Well don't leave out the most beloved homer MK