Fred Van Vleet a Shocker Star

[Bluzrover]

I'm thinking there are a few on that least who are going to benefit from Fred's largesse just a bit more, and probably Ron more than the others. Pretty cool, thanks for sharing.

[1972Shocker]

Not to take anything away from Fred, he is outstanding and the best point guard in Shocker history.

But Warren Armstrong's 429 assist in 78 games (5.5 per game average) is pretty impressive as well.

[Signman]

Not to take anything away from Fred, he is outstanding and the best point guard in Shocker history.

But Warren Armstrong's 429 assist in 78 games (5.5 per game average) is pretty impressive as well.

It would be interesting to compare FVV & Warren Armstrong Jabali on a minutes played basis. While it's true Fred played more games, he might not have played more minutes than Warren.

Fred is the best point guard I've ever seen at WSU since the early sixties. Warren was unbelievable and might have been what we call a combo guard now and an amazing athlete.

[1972Shocker]

Fred is the best point guard I've ever seen at WSU since the early sixties. Warren was unbelievable and might have been what we call a combo guard now and an amazing athlete.

Yes, Warren was not really a point guard. Warren was kind of hard to classify.

I'm not sure where to come up with minutes played for Warren. Also, Warren's 3 years were his Sophomore through Senior seasons. If you were to compare the two the better comparison would be to compare that to Fred's Sophomore through Senior seasons which is a book yet to be completed.

I wasn't really wanting to so much compare Fred to Warren but I don't think Warren get's enough credit for what a good team player and passer he was which becomes more apparent when you reduce his assists to a per game average.

[Steeleshocker]

Interesting information that was on Twitter last night...

Wait, you're telling me that Jake White made 14 shots!?!?

[Signman]

Yes, Warren was not really a point guard. Warren was kind of hard to classify.

I'm not sure where to come up with minutes played for Warren. Also, Warren's 3 years were his Sophomore through Senior seasons. If you were to compare the two the better comparison would be to compare that to Fred's Sophomore through Senior seasons which is a book yet to be completed.

I wasn't really wanting to so much compare Fred to Warren but I don't think Warren get's enough credit for what a good team player and passer he was which becomes more apparent when you reduce his assists to a per game average.

Agree with all of the above.

[1972Shocker]

Wait, you're telling me that Jake White made 14 shots!?!?

Actually he hade 66 shots in 147 attempts (44.9%) which on the face of it isn't bad. However, I think Jake may have mistakenly seen himself as a stretch 4 because those totals include a 6-40 (15%) performance from outside the 3-point line.

This year at Omaha he is 43-110 (39.1%) overall but only 3-19 (15%) on his treys.

I don't know if Jake was just one of those players who could knock 'em down in practice but tighten up in games but he hasn't done much stretching in his career.

However, I wish him the very best as he finishes out his career at Omaha.

One thing Jake does have as a Shocker that no one can ever take away from him is a Final Four appearance.

[ShockTalk]

Actually he hade 66 shots in 147 attempts (44.9%) which on the face of it isn't bad. However, I think Jake may have mistakenly seen himself as a stretch 4 because those totals include a 6-40 (15%) performance from outside the 3-point line.

This year at Omaha he is 43-110 (39.1%) overall but only 3-19 (15%) on his treys.

I don't know if Jake was just one of those players who could knock 'em down in practice but tighten up in games but he hasn't done much stretching in his career.

However, I wish him the very best as he finishes out his career at Omaha.

One thing Jake does have as a Shocker that no one can ever take away from him is a Final Four appearance.

I believe Jake had the highest 2pt % on the team at .585 in the year he played with FVV.

Noticed that FVV had 89 assists as a freshman. Four of the players listed on the "poster" only played with him that 1st year accounted for 44 of the 89. That leaves 45 assists to go to 6 other players on that list. Given that Baker only played in about half the games, Cle was probably the only player on that year's team that might have gotten more assists form Fred than Jake.

[KmanTA]

I believe Jake had the highest 2pt % on the team at .585 in the year he played with FVV.

Noticed that FVV had 89 assists as a freshman. Four of the players listed on the "poster" only played with him that 1st year accounted for 44 of the 89. That leaves 45 assists to go to 6 other players on that list. Given that Baker only played in about half the games, Cle was probably the only player on that year's team that might have gotten more assists form Fred than Jake.

Kill the discussion some, but here are Fred's frosh assists:

12 assists to Carl Hall
4 to Chadrack Lufile
19 to Cleanthony Early
8 to Demetric Williams
14 to Jake White
10 to Malcolm Armstead
9 to Nick Wiggins
3 to Ron Baker
10 to Tekele Cotton

[60Shock]

I may be just a wee bit prejudice, but I don't ever recal seeing a 'better, all around, college point guard than our FVV.

[Shoxfan11]

I may be just a wee bit prejudice, but I don't ever recal seeing a 'better, all around, college point guard than our FVV.

Andre Miller was very very solid, and he practically single-handedly carried Utah to the national championship in 1998, where they lost to Kentucky.

IIRC that Kentucky team is considered one of their best ever. Here's to hoping we get a chance to do what Utah couldn't and take them down... preferably in the final game.

[T.VuOP]

I wonder what ever happened to Mrclove. I hope he is well and basking in the warmth of his prognostications about FVV. He was always there for us in the beginning telling us how FVV was a special player/person and to keep ourselves and expectations in check. Where is his voice of reason and calm when there is so much hate and discontent on SN. Yeah you people know who you are.:)

His last post was on March 5th last year (at the end of the regular season). Something happened???

[RussDaBus]

Fred's conference only stats:

12.9 pts 4.4 rbs 5.3 ast 1.6 st 2.9 a/to 49%FG 43% 3FG 80% FT

Pretty impressive....shooting percentages are back to last year levels.

[1972Shocker]

Fred's conference only stats:

12.9 pts 4.4 rbs 5.3 ast 1.6 st 2.9 a/to 49%FG 43% 3FG 80% FT

Pretty impressive....shooting percentages are back to last year levels.

I thought it would be fun to compare Fred's MVC stats to those for WSU's other highly regarded point guard - the Lady Shocks' Alex Harden: 18.1 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 4.1 APG, 3.9 SPG, 1.7 A/TO, 52.7% FG. 76.1% FT

The only real weakness in Alex's game is her 3-point shooting although she doesn't take a lot of them (only 20 attempts in 14 games and a lot of those are in end of the shot clock situations). Also Alex will often play other positions and, in fact, I believe she has played at all 5 spots this year, however, she is primarily our point guard.

I like how our men's trio of Fred, Ron and Tekele stack up nationally. I also like how Fred and Alex stack up nationally to other Men's PG and Women's PG pairs.

Shocker men are 25-3 and the Shocker women are 22-4. The 13-1 Shocker women take on the 13-1 Drake women on Friday. The 15-1 Shocker men and the 15-1 UNI men meet Saturday. Hopefully both will be 16-1 when that happens.

I guess having a quality point guard is helpful.

This weekend (either Friday night or Sunday afternoon) very well could be the last opportunity to see Alex Harden in live action for the Lady Shocks. Although a home WNIT game is possible if they don't win the Valley Tournament.

We are living in point guard utopia with Fred and Alex leading our Shocker teams.

[Mrclove4]

IM BACK!!! FVV = WINS!!

Just thought I would check in and congratulate WSU on a big win today! Also, our hometown hero FVV on making shocker history! I will not say "I told you so" again about the greatness of Fred, it is self-evident. WSU has been a great stop for him, and a perfect fit. I know he appreciates all the love from shocker nation.. Thanks!