Wichita State at Cincinnati Game Thread 2-17-22

[Woodrow]

Lollygag around bringing the ball down so we can make sure the defense has plenty of time to get set up, dribble around for a while, toss a lazy pass off to someone just because that's what you do so they can dribble around for a while. Love the way Craig goes to the basket but I just wish he had a bit more energy early in the possession. We watched the Houston/UCF after our game. Very rarely does a Houston player even dribble unless they intend to go somewhere, and talk about crisp passes! One reason we don't get many good shots is that we don't move the ball quickly. Probably get the chance to see what I'm talking about tomorrow.

I agree that Porter needs to up the tempo, but I'm not sure if that is him or the game plan since it seems to be common on this team. How many 10 second calls has TE had when bringing the ball up? Many times they barely get across the timeline no matter who is playing point.

[Woodrow]

"High caliber point guard?!?" (emphasis is all mine). Hahahahahah. How about adequate? As in, J. Burton was adequate filling in at the point type of 'adequate.'

What next; C. Jackson is one of the tougher forwards in the conference? If only the Shocks had a reliable post? Oh, wait...

I don't understand the dislike of Porter. He really is a good pg. I went back and looked at FVV junior year AG senior year and Porter (junior) this year.


Pts. Assist Turnovers FG% 3pt fg% Reb Blocks

FVV 13.6 5.2 1.7 43 35.7 4.5 0.1

AG 10.3 4.1 2.2 34.8 28.9 3.1 0.1

CP 6.5 3.6 1.8 41.4 37.1 4.8 1.0

He compares favorably to both. He doesn't score as much but it is because he doesn't take as many shots. He leads our team this year in 3 point %, assists, steals and blocks. He has a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. Not as good as Fred but better than AG. He has room for improvement but it frightens me to think where we would be without him.

[Teddy Graham]

I agree that Porter needs to up the tempo, but I'm not sure if that is him or the game plan since it seems to be common on this team. How many 10 second calls has TE had when bringing the ball up? Many times they barely get across the timeline no matter who is playing point.

I agree that the tempo may be a game plan thing. My recollection is that under GGG the pg would very deliberately bring the ball up as well…maybe that is related but I don’t know.

Husker4Shickers, rwgaeding your “lackadaisical” comment, I may be wrong but I think that feeling may be coming more from demeaner than actual play. I say that because I sometimes feel that way about Porter but as I think about it for me that is more from his tempo and style of play. I would call him a glider with a nice burst of speed. Not that he doesn’t make the occasional sloppy TO but statistically he has a respectable A/TO ratio and he has been more aggressive taking it to the hole. Some were comparing him to AG from last year and their assist, steal, and TO numbers are very similar. The biggest difference statistically is CP is a much more accurate shooter from 2, 3 and the line. I think AG is the better on ball defender, but CP doesn’t appear to be targeted by opposing teams, and having a pg that can legit challenge shots at the rim is unusual (he is actually leading the team in blocks, though Inthink he sometimes relies on that ability too much). I do think that CP and most of the team did not close out well on 3’s against Cincy. That is one of those things that I think should have been addressed very quickly by the staff during the 1st half.

Maybe my biggest beef with Porter is I would like to see him look to score more often.

[molly jabali]

I don't understand the dislike of Porter. He really is a good pg. I went back and looked at FVV junior year AG senior year and Porter (junior) this year.


Pts. Assist Turnovers FG% 3pt fg% Reb Blocks

FVV 13.6 5.2 1.7 43 35.7 4.5 0.1

AG 10.3 4.1 2.2 34.8 28.9 3.1 0.1

CP 6.5 3.6 1.8 41.4 37.1 4.8 1.0

He compares favorably to both. He doesn't score as much but it is because he doesn't take as many shots. He leads our team this year in 3 point %, assists, steals and blocks. He has a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. Not as good as Fred but better than AG. He has room for improvement but it frightens me to think where we would be without him.

I never said ‘dislike’… I disagree that he is ‘elite’… very few ‘elites’ out there

[molly jabali]

TE
RC4
CP
MU
KP

TE and RC4, yes…CP, maybe…. Mo? Seriously , WSU is the only team in the country he can start for… he goes anywhere else, he does not average double figure MINUTES, let alone points…
KP in three years maybe… or a low low D1

[asiseeit]

TE and MU are both cancers that disrupt our offensive flow. TE
would barely see the floor at KU, Houston, Cincy, and many
other schools. He could play at Evansville, perhaps. I admire
MU's ability to score down low but not his decision making. Both guys
are very average defensive players at best. Since this season is going
nowhere, but those two probably are, I'd begin learning to play without
them now. MY starting lineup JP, KP, DD, RC, and CP with MU and TE
off the bench. The first time TE throws up a terrible shot he comes out.
The first time MU gets doubled and doesn't kick it out he is down.
If they learn they earn........more PT just like any other player. Our
dismal average assist number is horrible and reflects the selfish play of
some and general lack of ball movement.

[wichshock65]

TE and MU are both cancers that disrupt our offensive flow. TE
would barely see the floor at KU, Houston, Cincy, and many
other schools. He could play at Evansville, perhaps. I admire
MU's ability to score down low but not his decision making. Both guys
are very average defensive players at best. Since this season is going
nowhere, but those two probably are, I'd begin learning to play without
them now. MY starting lineup JP, KP, DD, RC, and CP with MU and TE
off the bench. The first time TE throws up a terrible shot he comes out.
The first time MU gets doubled and doesn't kick it out he is down.
If they learn they earn........more PT just like any other player. Our
dismal average assist number is horrible and reflects the selfish play of
some and general lack of ball movement.

Agree, but never going to happen. Example, IB love affair with JP as a starter..... the worse +/- on the team. The only player he is willing to give a little tough love, Monzy...... the best +/- on the team .

[mattdalt]

I don't understand the dislike of Porter. He really is a good pg. I went back and looked at FVV junior year AG senior year and Porter (junior) this year.


Pts. Assist Turnovers FG% 3pt fg% Reb Blocks

FVV 13.6 5.2 1.7 43 35.7 4.5 0.1

AG 10.3 4.1 2.2 34.8 28.9 3.1 0.1

CP 6.5 3.6 1.8 41.4 37.1 4.8 1.0

He compares favorably to both. He doesn't score as much but it is because he doesn't take as many shots. He leads our team this year in 3 point %, assists, steals and blocks. He has a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. Not as good as Fred but better than AG. He has room for improvement but it frightens me to think where we would be without him.

not shown in those stats:

FVV: ELITE defense. As in NBA all-defensive level good!
AG: very good on ball defense, particularly at the college level
CP: gets beat often off the dribble, Fortunately, has incredible hops, leading to blocks or contest on a fair number of drives

[Woodrow]

not shown in those stats:

FVV: ELITE defense. As in NBA all-defensive level good!
AG: very good on ball defense, particularly at the college level
CP: gets beat often off the dribble, Fortunately, has incredible hops, leading to blocks or contest on a fair number of drives

FVV is the gold standard and of course is the pg of choice. But even Fred struggled on defense at times. Remember the 20 point game Andrew Harrison had against Fred in the Kentucky game. Fred's defense is elite after a few years in the NBA.
Gilbert gave up 21 points to Drake's leading scorer Yesufu in the tournament last year. Several open 3's.
Porter may or may not be as good as AG regarding on the ball defense, but I would take him over AG.

[BAShocker]

I’ve decided to not post lately since the Cinncy game.

Bottom line is all I expect, is improvement in individual player, team and coaching staff throughout the season. I don’t think that is much to ask for.

I have seen none of that (for the most part) this season. It starts at the top.

[mattdalt]

not shown in those stats:

FVV: ELITE defense. As in NBA all-defensive level good!
AG: very good on ball defense, particularly at the college level
CP: gets beat often off the dribble, Fortunately, has incredible hops, leading to blocks or contest on a fair number of drives

The same Harrison with 6 turnovers? Fred was killing Kentucky on defense until a few questionable foul calls put him in foul trouble

[Kung Wu]

The same Harrison with 6 turnovers? Fred was killing Kentucky on defense until a few questionable foul calls put him in foul trouble

7 of Harrison's 20 points were from free throws too.

[Kung Wu]

Of the 13 points off baskets Andrew Harrison made 4 were while Van Vleet was subbed out, leaving 9 while Van Vleet was in. One 3 pointer and three 2s. Crazy!

[ShockingButTrue]

I don't understand the dislike of Porter. He really is a good pg. I went back and looked at FVV junior year AG senior year and Porter (junior) this year.


Pts. Assist Turnovers FG% 3pt fg% Reb Blocks

FVV 13.6 5.2 1.7 43 35.7 4.5 0.1

AG 10.3 4.1 2.2 34.8 28.9 3.1 0.1

CP 6.5 3.6 1.8 41.4 37.1 4.8 1.0

He compares favorably to both. He doesn't score as much but it is because he doesn't take as many shots. He leads our team this year in 3 point %, assists, steals and blocks. He has a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. Not as good as Fred but better than AG. He has room for improvement but it frightens me to think where we would be without him.

The bottom line is that WSU's guards have been subpar this year compared to last year. That's just evident. Porter's a great shot blocker for a point guard, but he's not a better ball handler than AG was during his brief time in the Roundhouse. CP is basically a converted shooting guard. Some of the other posters are right about his "lazy" demeanor that's demonstrated in some of his passes.

CP is not going to be a an all conference performet like AG was last year (3rd team). That's the just the truth.