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Wichita State at Houston Game Thread 1-8-22

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  • Dexter is the king of driving in the lane with no real plan. He runs into 3 defenders, pulls up and then starts looking around for somewhere to pass, which is too late.

    Comment


    • IB might want to consider more zone with certain players and combo of players in
      the line up to help address individual defensive weaknesses. For example
      bringing in RC4 and KP together might be a good time for a zone. I want KP
      around the rim and not chasing an opponents big outside the paint and RC might do
      better in a zone also. Could be one or two others, as well.

      Comment


      • And why do our guards refuse the screen and dribble away from the screener 70% of the time. Makes no sense

        Comment


        • Originally posted by shock-it-to-me View Post
          And why do our guards refuse the screen and dribble away from the screener 70% of the time. Makes no sense
          There's actually a reason for this.



          Overuse is obviously not the best idea, but it is a tactic designed to punish the defense for overplaying a ball screen.
          "In God we trust, all others must bring data." - W. Edwards Deming

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shock-it-to-me View Post
            And why do our guards refuse the screen and dribble away from the screener 70% of the time. Makes no sense
            It must be by design. We've done it for years

            Comment


            • Originally posted by pinstripers View Post

              It must be by design. We've done it for years
              Gotta be. Was hoping IB would've added some more wrinkles or enhancements to GM's old school offense but dern. Now without the discipline it looks like a damn Chinese fire drill. Well better put...more of a game of musical chairs. The Chinese fire drill is better described for the fast breaks. But that's old news...

              Anyways...only way to go is up.

              Go Shocks!
              FINAL FOURS:
              1965, 2013

              NCAA Tournament:
              1964, 1965, 1976, 1981, 1985, 1987, 1988, 2006, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2021

              NIT Champs - 1 (2011)

              AP Poll History of Wichita St:
              Number of Times Ranked: 157
              Number of Times Ranked #1: 1
              Number of Times Top 5: 32 (Most Recent - 2017)
              Number of Times Top 10: 73 (Most Recent - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017)

              Highest Recent AP Ranking:
              #3 - Dec. 2017
              #2 ~ March 2014

              Highest Recent Coaches Poll Ranking:
              #2 ~ March 2014
              Finished 2013 Season #4

              Comment


              • Originally posted by AZ Shocker View Post

                Gotta be. Was hoping IB would've added some more wrinkles or enhancements to GM's old school offense but dern. Now without the discipline it looks like a damn Chinese fire drill. Well better put...more of a game of musical chairs. The Chinese fire drill is better described for the fast breaks. But that's old news...

                Anyways...only way to go is up.

                Go Shocks!
                More like a Mexican Standoff!

                Comment


                • What I don’t get among many issues with the offense is that it appears that 40-50% of the initial passes are from Craig to Dexter who catches it on the left side standing straight up and facing at 45 degrees the opponent’s basket allowing the defender to be right in his grill with his medium to low effectiveness ball handling. Almost never does he successfully break away on the dribble or have anyone open to pass to except Mo who has to come too far out to then be able to get back in to the basket. So, on this many possessions or more the ball is stuck like the old tar baby story and 5-9 good seconds go off the clock with no progression in the offense and the defense gaining confidence and aggression. Watching Houston get people wide open on so many possessions proves it is the failure of the scheme. Again, if your opponent forces you to commence the offense at 45 feet you have to make them pay with motion, screening and back doors. Exhausting to watch the malaise.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by AZ Shocker View Post

                    Gotta be. Was hoping IB would've added some more wrinkles or enhancements to GM's old school offense but dern. Now without the discipline it looks like a damn Chinese fire drill. Well better put...more of a game of musical chairs. The Chinese fire drill is better described for the fast breaks. But that's old news...

                    Anyways...only way to go is up.

                    Go Shocks!
                    Marshall's disciplined teams? Are you saying that the team with Burton, Sherfield, Stevenson, and the rest was "disciplined"? Maybe they were disciplined in the locker room or in practice, but they did not play disciplined basketball. Back in the days when Hall, Baker, VanVleet, Cotton, and Wessel were on the court, those were disciplined teams. Disciplined play pretty much went steadily downhill after those guys were gone.

                    Even with an actual PG on the roster, Marshall's last team did not play disciplined basketball. Dribble, dribble, dribble, jack a 3 was the team's standard offense. Go review some of the game threads from that year and you will see the same complaints you're seeing in threads this year.

                    Comment


                    • A lot of it is not having a real PG since FVV, Alterique maybe being an exception.

                      Comment


                      • Maybe? AG was an exceptional PG, and frankly, even that is an understatement.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by WuDrWu View Post
                          Maybe? AG was an exceptional PG, and frankly, even that is an understatement.
                          Yep, and that's why this year's version of Shocker basketball is going to pale in comparison to last year's version. Porter is a good basketball player. He's not a high-major PG. He'd tear up the Valley (now that Yesufu is gone), but still not have an A/TO ratio much above 2 at that level. He's at exactly 2 this year, according to the stats I found.

                          Best player on the team is the PG with a 2.0 A/TO ration. That's a great formula for a low-seed NIT invite or possibly one of the C**-something tourneys.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by WuTheOne View Post
                            Marshall's disciplined teams? Are you saying that the team with Burton, Sherfield, Stevenson, and the rest was "disciplined"? Maybe they were disciplined in the locker room or in practice, but they did not play disciplined basketball.
                            No they did not. I agree. They did not play "disciplined". Or as much as was needed for GM's offense. Hence why those three transferred. Did not fit the system. Gone.

                            Originally posted by WuTheOne View Post
                            Back in the days when Hall, Baker, VanVleet, Cotton, and Wessel were on the court, those were disciplined teams.
                            Yep. 100% Right mix of players.

                            Originally posted by WuTheOne View Post
                            Disciplined play pretty much went steadily downhill after those guys were gone.

                            Even with an actual PG on the roster, Marshall's last team did not play disciplined basketball. Dribble, dribble, dribble, jack a 3 was the team's standard offense.
                            Definitely not what GM was looking (hoping) for in a point guard. Agree...undisciplined. And as you say was his "last" team.

                            Originally posted by WuTheOne View Post
                            Go review some of the game threads from that year and you will see the same complaints you're seeing in threads this year.
                            Noted and have already done. I'll ask the same as you and go watch the announcement video when Wichita got the invite to the American. GM states how this was a major weight class upgrade moving to the American Conference and WHO "coached" in the league. He knew the challenge.

                            Remember how many point guards transferred out under Marshall over the years??? It's not a "sexy" offense to play in. It's very "disciplined". You have to have the right guy with the right "other" guys to make the offense work. Old school and very disciplined. It's fruition came with guys like Hannah, Murray, Armstead and of course Fred.

                            GM was a great coach and got the absolute best out of his players until the bitter end. Loved the move to the American at the time...but the pressure was thick.
                            FINAL FOURS:
                            1965, 2013

                            NCAA Tournament:
                            1964, 1965, 1976, 1981, 1985, 1987, 1988, 2006, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2021

                            NIT Champs - 1 (2011)

                            AP Poll History of Wichita St:
                            Number of Times Ranked: 157
                            Number of Times Ranked #1: 1
                            Number of Times Top 5: 32 (Most Recent - 2017)
                            Number of Times Top 10: 73 (Most Recent - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017)

                            Highest Recent AP Ranking:
                            #3 - Dec. 2017
                            #2 ~ March 2014

                            Highest Recent Coaches Poll Ranking:
                            #2 ~ March 2014
                            Finished 2013 Season #4

                            Comment


                            • “Back in the days when we had Hall, Baker, VV, Cotton and Wessel on the court” - and we complain about lack of size now. 6’6” post and 6’4” power forward. Those guys had grit but I remember lots of complaining about having to use Evan at the 4.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by WuTheOne View Post
                                I've moved to thinking that hiring IB was a mistake, but he's our coach for the next 3 years or so regardless of any opinions on whether he should have been hired.

                                I'm willing to give IB those years to see if he can demonstrate that he deserved and deserves the job.
                                When you play in a conference like the AAC, you don't hire a coach to see if he actually deserves the job. The AD did HCIB a disservice when he didn't do a national coaches search - because if he had and came back with that IB was the best guy available, then more fans would be accepting.

                                Plenty of game left for HCIB to get the ship righted and prove he was the right choice, but it is clear with attendance the fans have lost hope.

                                There's really no other option.
                                Sure there is - if you have an AD worth his salt he doesn't keep throwing money away, you admit your mistake and you go find away to get the resources you need. And you take your lumps from the money-booster who "told you so".

                                Nobody expects this to really happen though. To much pride with AD and too much wokeness at the university.

                                Comment

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