Wichita State at Houston Game Thread 1-8-22

[Stickboy46]

“Back in the days when we had Hall, Baker, VV, Cotton and Wessel on the court” - and we complain about lack of size now. 6’6” post and 6’4” power forward. Those guys had grit but I remember lots of complaining about having to use Evan at the 4.

Evan at the 4 is why he was forced to give up his scholarship

[Woodrow]

Maybe? AG was an exceptional PG, and frankly, even that is an understatement.

He was a good pg and would have helped this team if he would have been academically eligible. His decision making was a little lacking at times, particularly at the end of games when he would toss up a long 3 pointer. HCGM's last year our assist to turnover per game was 14.1 to 12.8. HCIB first year 13.0 to 11.2, likely due to Gilbert's pg play. This year it is 12.3 to 13.6. More turnovers per game than assists is a recipe for losses. Porter is good at 2 to 1. Tyson averages more to's than assists. Most on the team are just not disciplined ball handlers.

[SB Shock]

I've moved to thinking that hiring IB was a mistake, but he's our coach for the next 3 years or so regardless of any opinions on whether he should have been hired.

I'm willing to give IB those years to see if he can demonstrate that he deserved and deserves the job.

When you play in a conference like the AAC, you don't hire a coach to see if he actually deserves the job. The AD did HCIB a disservice when he didn't do a national coaches search - because if he had and came back with that IB was the best guy available, then more fans would be accepting.

Plenty of game left for HCIB to get the ship righted and prove he was the right choice, but it is clear with attendance the fans have lost hope.

There's really no other option.

Sure there is - if you have an AD worth his salt he doesn't keep throwing money away, you admit your mistake and you go find away to get the resources you need. And you take your lumps from the money-booster who "told you so".

Nobody expects this to really happen though. To much pride with AD and too much wokeness at the university.

[Dan]

“Back in the days when we had Hall, Baker, VV, Cotton and Wessel on the court” - and we complain about lack of size now. 6’6” post and 6’4” power forward. Those guys had grit but I remember lots of complaining about having to use Evan at the 4.

[AZ Shocker]

Marshall's disciplined teams? Are you saying that the team with Burton, Sherfield, Stevenson, and the rest was "disciplined"? Maybe they were disciplined in the locker room or in practice, but they did not play disciplined basketball.

No they did not. I agree. They did not play "disciplined". Or as much as was needed for GM's offense. Hence why those three transferred. Did not fit the system. Gone.

Back in the days when Hall, Baker, VanVleet, Cotton, and Wessel were on the court, those were disciplined teams.

Yep. 100% Right mix of players.

Disciplined play pretty much went steadily downhill after those guys were gone.

Even with an actual PG on the roster, Marshall's last team did not play disciplined basketball. Dribble, dribble, dribble, jack a 3 was the team's standard offense.

Definitely not what GM was looking (hoping) for in a point guard. Agree...undisciplined. And as you say was his "last" team.

Go review some of the game threads from that year and you will see the same complaints you're seeing in threads this year.

Noted and have already done. I'll ask the same as you and go watch the announcement video when Wichita got the invite to the American. GM states how this was a major weight class upgrade moving to the American Conference and WHO "coached" in the league. He knew the challenge.

Remember how many point guards transferred out under Marshall over the years??? It's not a "sexy" offense to play in. It's very "disciplined". You have to have the right guy with the right "other" guys to make the offense work. Old school and very disciplined. It's fruition came with guys like Hannah, Murray, Armstead and of course Fred.

GM was a great coach and got the absolute best out of his players until the bitter end. Loved the move to the American at the time...but the pressure was thick.

[WuTheOne]

Maybe? AG was an exceptional PG, and frankly, even that is an understatement.

Yep, and that's why this year's version of Shocker basketball is going to pale in comparison to last year's version. Porter is a good basketball player. He's not a high-major PG. He'd tear up the Valley (now that Yesufu is gone), but still not have an A/TO ratio much above 2 at that level. He's at exactly 2 this year, according to the stats I found.

Best player on the team is the PG with a 2.0 A/TO ration. That's a great formula for a low-seed NIT invite or possibly one of the C**-something tourneys.

[WuDrWu]

Maybe? AG was an exceptional PG, and frankly, even that is an understatement.

[Dan]

A lot of it is not having a real PG since FVV, Alterique maybe being an exception.

[WuTheOne]

Gotta be. Was hoping IB would've added some more wrinkles or enhancements to GM's old school offense but dern. Now without the discipline it looks like a damn Chinese fire drill. Well better put...more of a game of musical chairs. The Chinese fire drill is better described for the fast breaks. But that's old news...

Anyways...only way to go is up.

Go Shocks!

Marshall's disciplined teams? Are you saying that the team with Burton, Sherfield, Stevenson, and the rest was "disciplined"? Maybe they were disciplined in the locker room or in practice, but they did not play disciplined basketball. Back in the days when Hall, Baker, VanVleet, Cotton, and Wessel were on the court, those were disciplined teams. Disciplined play pretty much went steadily downhill after those guys were gone.

Even with an actual PG on the roster, Marshall's last team did not play disciplined basketball. Dribble, dribble, dribble, jack a 3 was the team's standard offense. Go review some of the game threads from that year and you will see the same complaints you're seeing in threads this year.

[Ashockalypse]

What I don’t get among many issues with the offense is that it appears that 40-50% of the initial passes are from Craig to Dexter who catches it on the left side standing straight up and facing at 45 degrees the opponent’s basket allowing the defender to be right in his grill with his medium to low effectiveness ball handling. Almost never does he successfully break away on the dribble or have anyone open to pass to except Mo who has to come too far out to then be able to get back in to the basket. So, on this many possessions or more the ball is stuck like the old tar baby story and 5-9 good seconds go off the clock with no progression in the offense and the defense gaining confidence and aggression. Watching Houston get people wide open on so many possessions proves it is the failure of the scheme. Again, if your opponent forces you to commence the offense at 45 feet you have to make them pay with motion, screening and back doors. Exhausting to watch the malaise.

[Ashockalypse]

Gotta be. Was hoping IB would've added some more wrinkles or enhancements to GM's old school offense but dern. Now without the discipline it looks like a damn Chinese fire drill. Well better put...more of a game of musical chairs. The Chinese fire drill is better described for the fast breaks. But that's old news...

Anyways...only way to go is up.

Go Shocks!

More like a Mexican Standoff!

[AZ Shocker]

It must be by design. We've done it for years

Gotta be. Was hoping IB would've added some more wrinkles or enhancements to GM's old school offense but dern. Now without the discipline it looks like a damn Chinese fire drill. Well better put...more of a game of musical chairs. The Chinese fire drill is better described for the fast breaks. But that's old news...

Anyways...only way to go is up.

Go Shocks!

[pinstripers]

And why do our guards refuse the screen and dribble away from the screener 70% of the time. Makes no sense

It must be by design. We've done it for years

[Kel Varnsen]

And why do our guards refuse the screen and dribble away from the screener 70% of the time. Makes no sense

There's actually a reason for this.

Overuse is obviously not the best idea, but it is a tactic designed to punish the defense for overplaying a ball screen.

[shock-it-to-me]

And why do our guards refuse the screen and dribble away from the screener 70% of the time. Makes no sense