Wichita State at Oklahoma State Game Thread 12-1-21

[pie n eye]

I get that, but it's also not completely uncommon for coaches to forget they have a bench. Sometimes they simply don't value what certain players bring to the table. We saw that with 3G even at times.

Chaunce is also one of the few guys on the team that can get inside a defense and create, as well as being one of, if not the, best athletes on the roster. It's not like I'm asking for him to get 20 a game. Plus the kid seems to be able to play some D.

Maybe. But if you look at the minutes played by our bench guys (29, 19, 18, 13) it’s hard to make the case that Coach is forgetting his bench.

I don’t really know exactly what Chaunce brings to the table because we just haven’t seen him play enough. He showed flashes of everything you mentioned but there is obviously something holding the coaching staff back from trusting him to get even the smallest amount of minutes in meaningful games.

Part of it is the logjam of guys at his position but that can’t be the only thing. Without seeing him every day in practice I can’t speculate what it may be.

[ShockerFever]

"Started with a higher baseline" sure sounds like a load of crap to me. Idk what that even means?

Based on their returners coming off a good finish in the Big 12 last year? WTF are you basing yours on? Watching one game?

I think this team could beat a top-5 team on the road, sure! Won the conference a year ago so idk why they can't this year.

Stop arguing with me just for the sake of arguing with me. You lost.

Take the L.

lol you’re kind of obsessed now. Not that I don’t mind admirers but that’s all you do now is quote me. You don’t do much else.

You do know rankings and ratings have a preseason bias correct? Surely you’re not that challenged. We started the year Top 10 in most major polls and rankings. It’s kind of easier to go up from 10 than from 70, but I’m no math major.

Well they lost an NBA #1 pick. Not a super big deal, but might cost them a bucket or two. They’ve also lost at home to Oakland. And yes, they looked terrible last night. But I forgot, P5 teams can’t be terrible. It’s only because we made them look that way.

Wanna put your money where your mouth is on the prediction? Yep, didn’t think so. All talk.

You need to work on your game a bit more. You get butthurt way too easily for every perceived slight of the team or if someone isn’t pumping sunshine from their ass 24/7. You have no effing idea what’s gonna happen “based on 1 game” so don’t get mad when somebody else offers a different opinion with the same parameters.

Twatwaffle.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

I think Qua might be our only player that can get to the rim whenever he wants. Sometimes he makes some bad decisions when he gets there, but he's in a transition period right now.

He might be able to get to the rim but he gets stuffed 90% of the time and it ends in a turnover. That is counter productive. I prefer the rebounding and ball movement / passing in the Porter led offense. Nothing personal against Qua, but Porter is hands down above him as a pg.

[SubGod22]

Maybe. But if you look at the minutes played by our bench guys (29, 19, 18, 13) it’s hard to make the case that Coach is forgetting his bench.

I don’t really know exactly what Chaunce brings to the table because we just haven’t seen him play enough. He showed flashes of everything you mentioned but there is obviously something holding the coaching staff back from trusting him to get even the smallest amount of minutes in meaningful games.

Part of it is the logjam of guys at his position but that can’t be the only thing. Without seeing him every day in practice I can’t speculate what it may be.

I didn't mean the entire bench. Hell, wasn't there an earlier game where IB even mentioned he forgot he had Pohto on the bench? Or was that just what we assumed because he basically didn't play in an entire 2nd half?

[pie n eye]

He might be able to get to the rim but he gets stuffed 90% of the time and it ends in a turnover. That is counter productive. I prefer the rebounding and ball movement / passing in the Porter led offense. Nothing personal against Qua, but Porter is hands down above him as a pg.

They have almost identical stats with the exception of blocks and rebounds, both of which favor Porter.

Porter is playing well lately but I think “hands down above him as a PG” is a stretch when you consider the entire season. Strikes me as a bit of a prisoner of the moment take.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

They have almost identical stats with the exception of blocks and rebounds, both of which favor Porter.

Porter is playing well lately but I think “hands down above him as a PG” is a stretch when you consider the entire season. Strikes me as a bit of a prisoner of the moment take.

Come on man. Grant hasn't had a good game in a while. Not gonna argue because you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I like the size and rebounding / vision Porter has shown.

[pie n eye]

I didn't mean the entire bench. Hell, wasn't there an earlier game where IB even mentioned he forgot he had Pohto on the bench? Or was that just what we assumed because he basically didn't play in an entire 2nd half?

You said “it's also not completely uncommon for coaches to forget they have a bench”. I’m not sure how that could be interpreted to mean anything but Chaunce isn’t getting minutes because IB isn’t using his bench. The fact that we have four bench guys (Grant, Pohto, Council and Jackson) who played 13+ minutes seems to indicate he is using the bench, maybe just not the guys you want to see.

[Stickboy46]

Maybe the starting lineup needs to change, but I'm not sold that is the answer. The obvious combinations were changed last night already because Joe P. only played 7-8 minutes. JP's probably going to play 7-8 minutes whether they change the starting lineup or not, and JP probably won't be in the lineup at the end of the game unless there is foul trouble to a couple of players.

The only player that isn't getting very much playing time who may deserve it, is Chaunce, and he doesn't play the same position at Joe. I'm not sure whose playing time Chaunce would take, but TE's playing time probably isn't going to change right away. Ricky's emergence to a play maker that the defense needs to pay attention to, will help TE some as we go on. I was really impressed with Likele's defense last night, and he went to guard RC4 at the end of the game.

I'm really hoping Chaunce gets a lot of run in our mid December games to get him and the coaches confidence.

[Dan]

Maybe. But if you look at the minutes played by our bench guys (29, 19, 18, 13) it’s hard to make the case that Coach is forgetting his bench.

I don’t really know exactly what Chaunce brings to the table because we just haven’t seen him play enough. He showed flashes of everything you mentioned but there is obviously something holding the coaching staff back from trusting him to get even the smallest amount of minutes in meaningful games..

for one thing, IB says he's one of the best shooters on the team. IB is also very loyal to upperclassmen. I just hope Chaunce has the patience to wait it out.

[The Mad Hatter]

They have almost identical stats with the exception of blocks and rebounds, both of which favor Porter.

Porter is playing well lately but I think “hands down above him as a PG” is a stretch when you consider the entire season. Strikes me as a bit of a prisoner of the moment take.

If you look at advanced stats you have a figure like ppr (pure point rating), which assigns a number for your ability to handle the ball and pass. Last year Kendric Davis of SMU led the nation in this stat at 7.6. Craig didn't have enough minutes to qualify last year, but his ppr of 3.59 would have put him at around #50 in the nation. So far this year, he isn't close to that number at a -0.43, but Qua is at a -2.02, so Craig is still way ahead of him in the metrics that try to evaluate all you do to make an offense run effectively.

Qua's better shooting gives him a slightly better offensive rating than Craig and Craig has an even slighter advantage in defensive rating, but on pure point guard skills, Craig is the clear leader to this point.

[pie n eye]

for one thing, IB says he's one of the best shooters on the team. IB is also very loyal to upperclassmen. I just hope Chaunce has the patience to wait it out.

I think there is a reason coaches in general are “loyal” to upperclassmen. Coaches like guys who are predictable. As in, when I put player X on the court I generally know what I’m going get on any given night. Typically upper classmen are more consistently predictable. They have the advantage of maturity and knowledge that comes with age.

The fact that Chaunce is one of the best shooters on the team and still doesn’t get minutes tells me that there are other aspects of his game holding the coaching staff back from giving him minutes. Part of it also has to be the position he plays and the guys ahead of him.

Like others have said, I think he will soon get an opportunity to show that he is ready to work his way into the regular rotation more often.

[N Crestway]

Maybe someone can help me out here...

If I heard the announcers correctly last night...they mentioned something about Coach Isaac Brown was tied with best win-loss record to start his head coaching career with I believe they said Gary Thompson. They went on to say that that former Shocker coach (Thompson?) got to that amount of wins by defeating.......wait for it..........Oklahoma St.

Did I hear that correctly. If so a big time congratulations to Coach Isaac Brown for breaking (or tying???) that record last night!!!!!

Oklahoma State was defeated in the regional championship game no less. They were favored...Hank Iba's last good team. Back then there was no time clock and Wichita was able to hold the ball till they got the shot that they wanted. Out of necessity they were the more disciplined team that night.

[Dan]

I think there is a reason coaches in general are “loyal” to upperclassmen. Coaches like guys who are predictable. As in, when I put player X on the court I generally know what I’m going get on any given night. Typically upper classmen are more consistently predictable. They have the advantage of maturity and knowledge that comes with age.

The fact that Chaunce is one of the best shooters on the team and still doesn’t get minutes tells me that there are other aspects of his game holding the coaching staff back from giving him minutes. Part of it also has to be the position he plays and the guys ahead of him.

Like others have said, I think he will soon get an opportunity to show that he is ready to work his way into the regular rotation more often.

I understand all this., I also think Joe is getting the benefit of doubt solely because he’s an older player. Yes, his minutes are dwindling, but at some point you gotta try some other guys out.

[SubGod22]

for one thing, IB says he's one of the best shooters on the team. IB is also very loyal to upperclassmen. I just hope Chaunce has the patience to wait it out.

One of the best shooters on a team of guys that struggle to shoot. Still doesn't play. Has played good defense when allowed to play. Has made plays on O when allowed to play. Plays with energy when allowed to play. Creates on a team full of guys that struggle to create when allowed to play. He must be the absolute worst practice player in history to be so far down the bench that he rarely gets in.

Hell, if we're not going to run much of an offense and rely on guys creating opportunities on their own, you'd think we'd play a guy who's actually shown the ability to do that, even if they were in limited minutes.

If he continues to sit, I wouldn't expect him to return next season.

[Shocker Mama]

I feel like I missed a memo or something. Last night, I heard one of the announcers (or maybe it was the gal who was interviewing the coaches on the floor) talking about getting a kill —i.e., three consecutive stops. I saw Taylor Eldridge use this term recently also. All this time, I thought that was a volleyball term. Has this been a basketball thing, and I just never knew it?